I also don't use salt, and I can gain about 8 pounds if I go off that and eat at restaurants. It washes out after a few days. Too many cheat meals in a row will raise my BP in the meantime.
The WHO recommends 500 mg a day as a safe lower limit even for people who aren't yet hormonally adapted, however their analysis concludes that the true physiological limit is around 125 mg. At the time of the INTERSALT study, the Yanomami tribe in Brazil was eating 200 mg/day. They had no hypertension, and their BP stayed the same throughout their lives.
Fun, as you don't really gain weight from salt alone but a difference between your usual intake and incoming salt intake
- If I eat 2000mg sodium and will now eat 3000mg: water retention to counter sudden sodium influx and due to temporary higher aldosterone kept from period of lower sodium intake
- If I eat 2000mg sodium and will now eat 1000mg: after a little while, water retention from sudden rise of aldosterone (to which cells must adapt with time), via renin, and additional visible puffing (not weight gain) from movement of water from the outer of cell into the inside (sodium suddenly lower in plasma and water is there where is sodium: by lowering sodium intake we temporarily skewed relativily higher concentration towards intracellular spaces)
Awesome! Congratulations, you seem more and more fixed. I'd guess that higher protein probably puts your equilibrium a bit higher fat-wise (for utterly mysterious reasons but it seems to work like that for both of us), plus some extra weight from the salt later on, which is going to need some water to dissolve in like glycogen does.
If I'm remembering right, you now seem to function fairly correctly on HFLCLP and HCLFLP. Weight stable, no non-24, no other problems, in particular no tiredness or anything else that might be a hypometabolism symptom (https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/symptoms/), still a bit heavier than you'd like but no big deal?
> Too bad about the still not being normal weight lol!
Probably it will sort itself out eventually if you keep doing what you're doing though? Assuming PUFAs to be the root of all evil. The galloping obesity and the hyperphagia and the non-24 were the real problems, surely?
ex150 reliably takes you down to 210lbs/BMI 27 as I remember, is that right?
That would actually be 'normal weight' for me. I imagine you look pretty trim by modern American standards?
I'm going to try and find out what my 'free-feeding equilibrium' is over the next few weeks. Hopefully about 95kg or even a bit lower if the yo-yo thing worked. If that's true then it's coming down real slow but at least it's in the right direction.
If anything you seem healthier than me these days, so you may be in the same sort of state?
Have you considered making a graph of 'what ex150 reliably takes me down to'? over time, I get the sense it's getting lower over the years.
I'm guessing this diet increased the amount of protein you ate since you added rice/pasta/beans/lentils/bread. Maybe this had an effect on that FGF21 you have spoken of earlier.
Yea, that could be for sure. If I stay roughly weight stable or only gain a little bit, but deplete my adipose linoleic acid faster, that might be worth it.
Fair enough, I was missing that as the experimental goal even though you have mentioned it before. You could also lower the beef intake to compensate for extra protein.
Regarding diet sodas: there are some brand which has 0g salt. Not sure how much available in US, but with a quick google search I could find some (for example Zevia). I don't know how good they are but can be an option if they are available where you live.
I briefly looked into it but it seemed here were quite a few different types of FODMAP. Most of them I don’t seem to have issues with, really just potatoes.
Yeah. About 6 categories. Lactose, fructan and various alcohol sugars and other complex carb sorts. Varies a lot between individuals. And also it's dose dependent
Thanks for sharing this, your observation with the large jumps after 'cheat' meals aligns with my experience. Wondering what it is, maybe fully saturated glycogen stores and a carb adapted system may preferentially turn the fat we eat into the fat we wear?
I also don't use salt, and I can gain about 8 pounds if I go off that and eat at restaurants. It washes out after a few days. Too many cheat meals in a row will raise my BP in the meantime.
The WHO recommends 500 mg a day as a safe lower limit even for people who aren't yet hormonally adapted, however their analysis concludes that the true physiological limit is around 125 mg. At the time of the INTERSALT study, the Yanomami tribe in Brazil was eating 200 mg/day. They had no hypertension, and their BP stayed the same throughout their lives.
Fun, as you don't really gain weight from salt alone but a difference between your usual intake and incoming salt intake
- If I eat 2000mg sodium and will now eat 3000mg: water retention to counter sudden sodium influx and due to temporary higher aldosterone kept from period of lower sodium intake
- If I eat 2000mg sodium and will now eat 1000mg: after a little while, water retention from sudden rise of aldosterone (to which cells must adapt with time), via renin, and additional visible puffing (not weight gain) from movement of water from the outer of cell into the inside (sodium suddenly lower in plasma and water is there where is sodium: by lowering sodium intake we temporarily skewed relativily higher concentration towards intracellular spaces)
Awesome! Congratulations, you seem more and more fixed. I'd guess that higher protein probably puts your equilibrium a bit higher fat-wise (for utterly mysterious reasons but it seems to work like that for both of us), plus some extra weight from the salt later on, which is going to need some water to dissolve in like glycogen does.
If I'm remembering right, you now seem to function fairly correctly on HFLCLP and HCLFLP. Weight stable, no non-24, no other problems, in particular no tiredness or anything else that might be a hypometabolism symptom (https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/symptoms/), still a bit heavier than you'd like but no big deal?
So what happens if you do high-protein swamp?!
Yea seems that way. Too bad about the still not being normal weight lol!
I haven’t tried complete swamping (high everything?) for more than a few days, so hard to say!
> Too bad about the still not being normal weight lol!
Probably it will sort itself out eventually if you keep doing what you're doing though? Assuming PUFAs to be the root of all evil. The galloping obesity and the hyperphagia and the non-24 were the real problems, surely?
ex150 reliably takes you down to 210lbs/BMI 27 as I remember, is that right?
python3 -c 'h=(6*12+1)*0.0254; print((210/2.2046)/ (h*h))'
27.706
That would actually be 'normal weight' for me. I imagine you look pretty trim by modern American standards?
I'm going to try and find out what my 'free-feeding equilibrium' is over the next few weeks. Hopefully about 95kg or even a bit lower if the yo-yo thing worked. If that's true then it's coming down real slow but at least it's in the right direction.
If anything you seem healthier than me these days, so you may be in the same sort of state?
Have you considered making a graph of 'what ex150 reliably takes me down to'? over time, I get the sense it's getting lower over the years.
I'm guessing this diet increased the amount of protein you ate since you added rice/pasta/beans/lentils/bread. Maybe this had an effect on that FGF21 you have spoken of earlier.
Yea, that could be for sure. If I stay roughly weight stable or only gain a little bit, but deplete my adipose linoleic acid faster, that might be worth it.
Fair enough, I was missing that as the experimental goal even though you have mentioned it before. You could also lower the beef intake to compensate for extra protein.
Regarding diet sodas: there are some brand which has 0g salt. Not sure how much available in US, but with a quick google search I could find some (for example Zevia). I don't know how good they are but can be an option if they are available where you live.
Regarding bloating, have you looked into fodmap theory (Monash university)?
The idea is that various complex carbs aren't easily digesting for some. This they ferment and trouble.
I'm currently trying sourdough breads because the fructan in wheat goes away mostly in long sourdough fermentation
I briefly looked into it but it seemed here were quite a few different types of FODMAP. Most of them I don’t seem to have issues with, really just potatoes.
Yeah. About 6 categories. Lactose, fructan and various alcohol sugars and other complex carb sorts. Varies a lot between individuals. And also it's dose dependent
Thanks for sharing this, your observation with the large jumps after 'cheat' meals aligns with my experience. Wondering what it is, maybe fully saturated glycogen stores and a carb adapted system may preferentially turn the fat we eat into the fat we wear?
Looking forward to your next update
Could be, or just the salt? I don’t think I ate enough fat during the cheat meals to gain 5lbs of actual fat.
Sorry, why no coffee? Do you only drink it with cream?
Glad to hear the experiment was a success!
Yea, I don’t like black coffee