Yea, it’s definitely not super low. On the other hand, you could eat 3,000kcal of oats and you’d get ~18g of o6. So it’s not super high, either - that’s about what, 2tbsp of soybean oil? Whole grain bread is similar.
I plan on eating oats for breakfast, so it should still be relatively low due to the low total amount. Bread maybe half white half whole wheat flour.
Got Gemini to compare the protein details between the two.
When comparing wild-caught salmon and beef purely in terms of their **protein composition**—assuming you are consuming an equal amount of total protein from each—the discussion boils down to three main factors: **amino acid profiles**, **digestibility/bioavailability**, and the **"package"** that protein arrives in.
Because both are high-quality animal proteins, they are "complete" (containing all nine essential amino acids), but their structural breakdowns differ significantly.
### 1. Amino Acid Profile (The Building Blocks)
While both sources easily meet human requirements for essential amino acids (EAAs), their specific concentrations lean in different directions.
* **Wild-Caught Salmon** generally boasts a higher concentration of **sulfur-containing amino acids** (methionine and cysteine) and is exceptionally rich in **lysine**.
* **Beef** typically leads in **branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs)**—leucine, isoleucine, and valine—which are the primary drivers of muscle protein synthesis. Beef also contains significantly higher baseline levels of **glycine, proline, and hydroxyproline** because of its higher collagen content, as well as functional amino acid derivatives like **creatine, carnitine, and carnosine**.
Here is how they stack up relatively when matching gram-for-gram of total protein:
| **Leucine** | High | **Higher** | Primary trigger for muscle protein synthesis. |
| **Methionine & Cysteine** | **Higher** | High | Crucial for cellular health, metabolism, and detoxification. |
| **Lysine** | **Higher** | High | Essential for growth, tissue repair, and immune function. |
| **Glycine & Proline** | Low to Moderate | **Higher** | Structural components for connective tissue and collagen. |
| **Creatine** | Moderate (~4g/kg) | **Higher** (~5g/kg) | Recycles ATP for short-burst cellular energy. |
### 2. Digestibility and Absorption
To understand how effectively your body utilizes these proteins, we look at the **DIAS (Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score)**, which is the modern standard for measuring protein quality.
* **Beef** scores incredibly high on the DIAS scale (typically between 1.1 and 1.3). Its amino acid balance closely mirrors human skeletal muscle, and it is highly digestible.
* **Salmon** scores similarly high, but it possesses a distinct structural advantage: **lower connective tissue content**. Fish protein contains very little collagen compared to land animals, and its muscle fibers (myotomes) are much shorter.
> **The Digestibility Takeaway:** Because of this lack of tough connective tissue, salmon protein is broken down and digested more rapidly by the stomach and upper GI tract than beef. If you match the protein gram-for-gram, salmon will deliver its amino acids into your bloodstream slightly faster, whereas beef provides a more sustained, slower release of amino acids.
>
### 3. The Structural "Protein Package"
While the prompt assumes equal protein eaten, the structural matrices of these two foods alter how the protein behaves during cooking and digestion.
* **The Myofibrillar Matrix:** Beef protein is dense, bound tightly by collagen sheaths that require heat to soften into gelatin. Salmon protein is delicate; its proteins denature and coagulate at much lower temperatures. Overcooking salmon easily squeezes out moisture, compressing the protein matrix, whereas beef handles (and often requires) longer or higher heat profiles to optimize chewability.
* **The Micronutrient Add-ons:** The protein in wild salmon is inextricably bound to a matrix high in selenium, vitamin D, and astaxanthin (the antioxidant that makes it pink). Beef protein is bound to a matrix exceptionally rich in highly bioavailable heme iron, zinc, and vitamin B12.
### Summary
If you eat 30 grams of protein from wild salmon and 30 grams of protein from beef, your body gets a fantastic, complete dose of EAAs either way. Choose **beef** if you are prioritizing maximal leucine delivery for muscle building, creatine accumulation, or a slower, more satiating digestion rate. Choose **wild salmon** if you want rapid protein utilization, higher lysine/methionine ratios, and an easily digestible meal that won't sit heavily in the stomach.
Hm, interesting. I initially thought BCAA is the “bad part” (in me), restricting it being the effect of “protein restriction.” But there are apparently similar indications that it could be the SAAs (sulfur containing).
Maybe this hints that, in me, it’s the SAA not the BCAAs?
Long time lurker here. This long term HCLF looks very interesting, although given how rigorous you are with elimination diets I am a little surprised you are mixing rice with wheat flour products and oats. Hey, I guess it gives more opportunity for further experimentation later.
Well I’ve done both pure rice and pure bread experiments before. With varying levels of success heh.
It is a bit of a change from my more boring normal diets, you’re right. But I honestly don’t except much weight loss on the HCLF, maybe I’ll even gain fat. Hopefully not too much.
Ah that makes sense. I track the other parts of your work rather than the LA depletion because we've been eating little PUFA for about 18 years now and we run a beef farm so have a good supply of tallow/suet. Your diet experiments are fascinating and I am always stunned by how much weight you put on during a refeed.
"I was frying my salmon at high heat in butter and/or beef tallow to get the skin crispy."
Were you eating the skin? If so, how did it taste? I love eating crispy skins from a variety of fish species (for example bluegill or halibut), but I avoid salmon and trout skins. Not sure why, but they've always been off-putting to me, especially after a couple of my cousins said they felt sick after eating some I was going to throw away. They were from Northeast India and would always eat the skins of the fish found there, but none were salmonids.
... Although I eat the skins of some species of fish, these days I bake the flesh at 300 degrees to reduce PUFA oxidation.
No! If you can smell fish it's already gone rancid. Most fish or algae oil supplements are, that's one reason they come in capsules. Mine comes in a dark glass bottle and needs to be refrigerated. Additionally there is Seabuckthorn oil mixed in to prevent oxidation.
Maybe with fish you need variety? As far a I know no fish-based culture relies on a single type of fish (unlike herding-based cultures) and if you would fish on your own most likely you would catch (and so would eat) different fish over the days. Also in neither salmon nor sardines were highly valued fish historically. I don't know how much different fish species differ in their nutritional content but maybe the problem is not the "fish" but that you eat the same fish every day.
Edit: also while wild caught salmon is low in mercury content relative to other fish it's still one or two magnitude higher than in beef / pork / chicken. So that could cause the problem too.
Yea and besides the variety, it also seems that “fish cultures” eat way less fish than “meat cultures” eat meat. Maybe because a single buffalo/cow will give you half a ton of meat, which is a lot of fish to catch..
Sounds about right. That's waay too much fish. And maybe the frying does something.
After 1.5 years of avg 3.5% pufa I should be at a similar LA flux as you right now. 2tbsp of soybean oil/d. Just via different stats(5'8, 183lbs 20%bf at 10% LA). I took a tsp of my girlfriend's fish oil 2-3 times in the last 10 days. Without prompting, she commented that I look leaner. Could also be coincidence. Who knows
Isn't oat pretty PUFAed ?
https://tools.myfooddata.com/nutrition-facts/168872/100g/1
Fat is 16% of calories, and ~40% of that fat is omega-6.
Yea, it’s definitely not super low. On the other hand, you could eat 3,000kcal of oats and you’d get ~18g of o6. So it’s not super high, either - that’s about what, 2tbsp of soybean oil? Whole grain bread is similar.
I plan on eating oats for breakfast, so it should still be relatively low due to the low total amount. Bread maybe half white half whole wheat flour.
This is also my question 🙋🏼♀️
Got Gemini to compare the protein details between the two.
When comparing wild-caught salmon and beef purely in terms of their **protein composition**—assuming you are consuming an equal amount of total protein from each—the discussion boils down to three main factors: **amino acid profiles**, **digestibility/bioavailability**, and the **"package"** that protein arrives in.
Because both are high-quality animal proteins, they are "complete" (containing all nine essential amino acids), but their structural breakdowns differ significantly.
### 1. Amino Acid Profile (The Building Blocks)
While both sources easily meet human requirements for essential amino acids (EAAs), their specific concentrations lean in different directions.
* **Wild-Caught Salmon** generally boasts a higher concentration of **sulfur-containing amino acids** (methionine and cysteine) and is exceptionally rich in **lysine**.
* **Beef** typically leads in **branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs)**—leucine, isoleucine, and valine—which are the primary drivers of muscle protein synthesis. Beef also contains significantly higher baseline levels of **glycine, proline, and hydroxyproline** because of its higher collagen content, as well as functional amino acid derivatives like **creatine, carnitine, and carnosine**.
Here is how they stack up relatively when matching gram-for-gram of total protein:
| Amino Acid / Compound | Wild-Caught Salmon | Beef | Highlighted Role |
|---|---|---|---|
| **Leucine** | High | **Higher** | Primary trigger for muscle protein synthesis. |
| **Methionine & Cysteine** | **Higher** | High | Crucial for cellular health, metabolism, and detoxification. |
| **Lysine** | **Higher** | High | Essential for growth, tissue repair, and immune function. |
| **Glycine & Proline** | Low to Moderate | **Higher** | Structural components for connective tissue and collagen. |
| **Creatine** | Moderate (~4g/kg) | **Higher** (~5g/kg) | Recycles ATP for short-burst cellular energy. |
### 2. Digestibility and Absorption
To understand how effectively your body utilizes these proteins, we look at the **DIAS (Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score)**, which is the modern standard for measuring protein quality.
* **Beef** scores incredibly high on the DIAS scale (typically between 1.1 and 1.3). Its amino acid balance closely mirrors human skeletal muscle, and it is highly digestible.
* **Salmon** scores similarly high, but it possesses a distinct structural advantage: **lower connective tissue content**. Fish protein contains very little collagen compared to land animals, and its muscle fibers (myotomes) are much shorter.
> **The Digestibility Takeaway:** Because of this lack of tough connective tissue, salmon protein is broken down and digested more rapidly by the stomach and upper GI tract than beef. If you match the protein gram-for-gram, salmon will deliver its amino acids into your bloodstream slightly faster, whereas beef provides a more sustained, slower release of amino acids.
>
### 3. The Structural "Protein Package"
While the prompt assumes equal protein eaten, the structural matrices of these two foods alter how the protein behaves during cooking and digestion.
* **The Myofibrillar Matrix:** Beef protein is dense, bound tightly by collagen sheaths that require heat to soften into gelatin. Salmon protein is delicate; its proteins denature and coagulate at much lower temperatures. Overcooking salmon easily squeezes out moisture, compressing the protein matrix, whereas beef handles (and often requires) longer or higher heat profiles to optimize chewability.
* **The Micronutrient Add-ons:** The protein in wild salmon is inextricably bound to a matrix high in selenium, vitamin D, and astaxanthin (the antioxidant that makes it pink). Beef protein is bound to a matrix exceptionally rich in highly bioavailable heme iron, zinc, and vitamin B12.
### Summary
If you eat 30 grams of protein from wild salmon and 30 grams of protein from beef, your body gets a fantastic, complete dose of EAAs either way. Choose **beef** if you are prioritizing maximal leucine delivery for muscle building, creatine accumulation, or a slower, more satiating digestion rate. Choose **wild salmon** if you want rapid protein utilization, higher lysine/methionine ratios, and an easily digestible meal that won't sit heavily in the stomach.
Hm, interesting. I initially thought BCAA is the “bad part” (in me), restricting it being the effect of “protein restriction.” But there are apparently similar indications that it could be the SAAs (sulfur containing).
Maybe this hints that, in me, it’s the SAA not the BCAAs?
Or maybe just lacking in creatinine, hm.
Can experiment on all those via supplementation
Long time lurker here. This long term HCLF looks very interesting, although given how rigorous you are with elimination diets I am a little surprised you are mixing rice with wheat flour products and oats. Hey, I guess it gives more opportunity for further experimentation later.
Well I’ve done both pure rice and pure bread experiments before. With varying levels of success heh.
It is a bit of a change from my more boring normal diets, you’re right. But I honestly don’t except much weight loss on the HCLF, maybe I’ll even gain fat. Hopefully not too much.
The goal is more to deplete LA faster.
Ah that makes sense. I track the other parts of your work rather than the LA depletion because we've been eating little PUFA for about 18 years now and we run a beef farm so have a good supply of tallow/suet. Your diet experiments are fascinating and I am always stunned by how much weight you put on during a refeed.
"I was frying my salmon at high heat in butter and/or beef tallow to get the skin crispy."
Were you eating the skin? If so, how did it taste? I love eating crispy skins from a variety of fish species (for example bluegill or halibut), but I avoid salmon and trout skins. Not sure why, but they've always been off-putting to me, especially after a couple of my cousins said they felt sick after eating some I was going to throw away. They were from Northeast India and would always eat the skins of the fish found there, but none were salmonids.
... Although I eat the skins of some species of fish, these days I bake the flesh at 300 degrees to reduce PUFA oxidation.
Yea I was eating the skin (that’s the delicious part lol, and the fatty part I think). It tasted good, not rancid or anything.
No! If you can smell fish it's already gone rancid. Most fish or algae oil supplements are, that's one reason they come in capsules. Mine comes in a dark glass bottle and needs to be refrigerated. Additionally there is Seabuckthorn oil mixed in to prevent oxidation.
Maybe with fish you need variety? As far a I know no fish-based culture relies on a single type of fish (unlike herding-based cultures) and if you would fish on your own most likely you would catch (and so would eat) different fish over the days. Also in neither salmon nor sardines were highly valued fish historically. I don't know how much different fish species differ in their nutritional content but maybe the problem is not the "fish" but that you eat the same fish every day.
Edit: also while wild caught salmon is low in mercury content relative to other fish it's still one or two magnitude higher than in beef / pork / chicken. So that could cause the problem too.
Yea and besides the variety, it also seems that “fish cultures” eat way less fish than “meat cultures” eat meat. Maybe because a single buffalo/cow will give you half a ton of meat, which is a lot of fish to catch..
I'm pretty sure you burnt quite a lot of o3 while frying the skin. Whipping a o3 algae oil directly into your cream could be interesting.
Yea I pretty much did as much as you can without deep frying the fish lol
Unoxidized would likely be better. But I don’t really like supplements so o3 oil probably not on the list any time soon.
I view it more like a condiment than a sup since I put a tablespoon of it in my muesli.
Doesn't it taste fishy?
Sounds about right. That's waay too much fish. And maybe the frying does something.
After 1.5 years of avg 3.5% pufa I should be at a similar LA flux as you right now. 2tbsp of soybean oil/d. Just via different stats(5'8, 183lbs 20%bf at 10% LA). I took a tsp of my girlfriend's fish oil 2-3 times in the last 10 days. Without prompting, she commented that I look leaner. Could also be coincidence. Who knows
Extremely interesting!
Dose makes the poison, I suppose!