Interesting. I thought I read (maybe on Mercola?) who reported several study benefits of ACV ideal dosage was 1 tablespoon. I'll have to find it. I have been adding 1 tablespoon to water and it seems to be helping a good bit. Whew. Almost half a bottle??? I dunno how you did it.
Yeah that was driving me nuts as I was reading. I kept thinking, Why such insane amounts when you apparently only need a tablespoon or less? The body still has to process all that acetic acid and those amounts seem really unbalacing. Just for one example, acetic acid feeds into the Krebs cycle so a lot of stuff can potentially build up downstream. There aren’t many vitamins in vinegar so it would be easy to end up needing a lot to process those metabolites, creating a bottleneck.
Haha I didn't know about the tablespoon studies yet when I started. Jaromir was speculating 10-20g acetic acid, extrapolated from mouse studies. I only read those 15-30ml studies about halfway through and then I relaxed it a little.
Yea I heard some people on Twitter and in the comments do that. Some even say the taste is mildly better, if not great heh. I just used baking soda don't think those come with potassium bicarbonate :(
Not specifically related to this, but I've been wondering: why do you keep switching away from ex150, if it's the most effective thing you've found? Why not stick with it until you hit 200 (or whatever your goal weight is)?
I did that until I plateaued around 220. I was around 220 most of 2024, and for most of that time I was on some variant of ex150 but it didn't seem to want to drop further.
I have recently been using a prompt with ChaGPT to help me lose some weight and accountability. Have you considered setting up a prompt that you can input your data and analyze for trends etc with your diet trials? Perhaps there's a common thread in all of your trials you just can't see clearly.
Can't remember if I've brought this up to you but based on my recent time with HCLPLF I'd encourage you if you have *any* cravings during this protocol, please add some lean meat. I know its off the protocol but chronically low protein fucked me up way worse than I thought it could.
Just some chicken breast, some 99/1 turkey, ruminant, or egg white, and not much needed, but some seems to be a big deal for me. Literally my plateau started when I stopped eating about 1 lb of lean meat a day and swapped to 1 lb a week, and cut out chicken entirely out of PUFA fear.
Yea I think this happened to me both when I tried fat fasting (cream only) and sugar fasting. I can do about 4 days until mild cravings, but by day 6-7 it's pretty bad. So if I were to do any such super low protein days again, I'd probably cycle at like 4:1 or so.
But rice is higher in protein than my normal diet anyway, so I shouldn't run into any trouble.
If you're sure you ate less, doesn't that mean it worked? The fact that you didn't lose much weight can probably be hand-waved away somehow (something something water weight).
"Following a review by BMJ Group’s content integrity team, the study was referred to statistical experts who were unable to replicate the findings and identified multiple analytical errors and irregularities in the data set. They stated that these issues would require further independent scrutiny."
Huh, interesting, this just happened? I should edit my post to reflect this heh.
Although it doesn't seem the finding in particular are under critique, sound pretty technical?
Funny enough they say this "extreme" weight loss result is inconsistent with previous studies on ACV, but that happened in several studies I reviewed and it's happening in me, currently!
Yes, as I understand this happened early October this year.
As I understand the main problem is that an individual statisticians got the raw data, but could not get the same numbers out of it as the authors. And as a response the authors redacted the paper. So it could be just some technical error but still dubious why not just correct the mistakes. My hunch is that (unfortunately) the results would be less consistent or significant. Obviously that does not change the fact that it works for you :)
Although as I understand now you do two experiment at once: the ACV capsule on exfat150, but also the no-sauce-main-meal-exfat150. So we don't really know yet which causes the results.
That's correct. The thing with ACV is that, in studies like these, it seems to take several weeks to months to set in - so you can't just do it for a 30 day experiment and be done with it. I had only done 1 month of continuous ACV before, and some experiments show the big effect setting in after 2 months! So I want to get at least 3 months in a row in.
Of course, that does confound things. But if I have "A+B works" I can always back out A and B and see what part they played.
On the paper, yea it is strange that they wouldn't just release the data. Oh well, scientists for ya ;)
I don't like those RCT studies. Normally the placebo is the exact same thing as the treatment but without the active ingredient. Like you don't give the control group no pills, you give them the same amount of sugar pills, or inject saline instead of a drug or something.
I would have liked to see studies where they compared drinking an entire glass of vinegar to drinking something that tastes like vinegar instead of skipping it entirely. I think the pills would have worked better for this?
It just seems obvious to me that the results are real, sure, but maybe drinking something gross like vinegar curbs appetite regardless of the actual content of the drink.
Interesting. I thought I read (maybe on Mercola?) who reported several study benefits of ACV ideal dosage was 1 tablespoon. I'll have to find it. I have been adding 1 tablespoon to water and it seems to be helping a good bit. Whew. Almost half a bottle??? I dunno how you did it.
15ml is 1 Tablespoon. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2025/07/02/apple-cider-vinegar.aspx
Yeah that was driving me nuts as I was reading. I kept thinking, Why such insane amounts when you apparently only need a tablespoon or less? The body still has to process all that acetic acid and those amounts seem really unbalacing. Just for one example, acetic acid feeds into the Krebs cycle so a lot of stuff can potentially build up downstream. There aren’t many vitamins in vinegar so it would be easy to end up needing a lot to process those metabolites, creating a bottleneck.
Haha I didn't know about the tablespoon studies yet when I started. Jaromir was speculating 10-20g acetic acid, extrapolated from mouse studies. I only read those 15-30ml studies about halfway through and then I relaxed it a little.
You could neutralize your vinegar with potassium bicarbonate to avoid sodium.
It doesn't taste any better tho'
The tube channel"pottengers human " has several videos on the benefits of vinegar.
The theory being that as long as you keep the right ratio of K:Na that you will avoid the bad effects of high consumption?
I've no idea what ideal ratios are, I tried it to see if it tasted better. I'm not concerned with excessive sodium on keto/carnivore diet.
I prefer it diluted in carbonated water.
I think that's the theory behind "lite salt" and stuff, yea
Lite salt is a mix of potassium and sodium chloride. You need carbonate to neutralize acid.
Yea I heard some people on Twitter and in the comments do that. Some even say the taste is mildly better, if not great heh. I just used baking soda don't think those come with potassium bicarbonate :(
I don't think the taste is much different. I prefer to take it in carbonated water.
Not specifically related to this, but I've been wondering: why do you keep switching away from ex150, if it's the most effective thing you've found? Why not stick with it until you hit 200 (or whatever your goal weight is)?
I did that until I plateaued around 220. I was around 220 most of 2024, and for most of that time I was on some variant of ex150 but it didn't seem to want to drop further.
I have recently been using a prompt with ChaGPT to help me lose some weight and accountability. Have you considered setting up a prompt that you can input your data and analyze for trends etc with your diet trials? Perhaps there's a common thread in all of your trials you just can't see clearly.
No, I don't use AI.
Can't remember if I've brought this up to you but based on my recent time with HCLPLF I'd encourage you if you have *any* cravings during this protocol, please add some lean meat. I know its off the protocol but chronically low protein fucked me up way worse than I thought it could.
Just some chicken breast, some 99/1 turkey, ruminant, or egg white, and not much needed, but some seems to be a big deal for me. Literally my plateau started when I stopped eating about 1 lb of lean meat a day and swapped to 1 lb a week, and cut out chicken entirely out of PUFA fear.
Yea I think this happened to me both when I tried fat fasting (cream only) and sugar fasting. I can do about 4 days until mild cravings, but by day 6-7 it's pretty bad. So if I were to do any such super low protein days again, I'd probably cycle at like 4:1 or so.
But rice is higher in protein than my normal diet anyway, so I shouldn't run into any trouble.
If you're sure you ate less, doesn't that mean it worked? The fact that you didn't lose much weight can probably be hand-waved away somehow (something something water weight).
My goal is not to eat less; it's to lose fat :) I've had plenty of periods where I ate much less and didn't lose any fat.
I've just found out that the Lebanese paper has been retracted: https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2025/10/01/apple-cider-vinegar-and-weight-loss-study-retracted-wrong-decision-to-publish/
"Following a review by BMJ Group’s content integrity team, the study was referred to statistical experts who were unable to replicate the findings and identified multiple analytical errors and irregularities in the data set. They stated that these issues would require further independent scrutiny."
Huh, interesting, this just happened? I should edit my post to reflect this heh.
Although it doesn't seem the finding in particular are under critique, sound pretty technical?
Funny enough they say this "extreme" weight loss result is inconsistent with previous studies on ACV, but that happened in several studies I reviewed and it's happening in me, currently!
Yes, as I understand this happened early October this year.
As I understand the main problem is that an individual statisticians got the raw data, but could not get the same numbers out of it as the authors. And as a response the authors redacted the paper. So it could be just some technical error but still dubious why not just correct the mistakes. My hunch is that (unfortunately) the results would be less consistent or significant. Obviously that does not change the fact that it works for you :)
Although as I understand now you do two experiment at once: the ACV capsule on exfat150, but also the no-sauce-main-meal-exfat150. So we don't really know yet which causes the results.
That's correct. The thing with ACV is that, in studies like these, it seems to take several weeks to months to set in - so you can't just do it for a 30 day experiment and be done with it. I had only done 1 month of continuous ACV before, and some experiments show the big effect setting in after 2 months! So I want to get at least 3 months in a row in.
Of course, that does confound things. But if I have "A+B works" I can always back out A and B and see what part they played.
On the paper, yea it is strange that they wouldn't just release the data. Oh well, scientists for ya ;)
I don't like those RCT studies. Normally the placebo is the exact same thing as the treatment but without the active ingredient. Like you don't give the control group no pills, you give them the same amount of sugar pills, or inject saline instead of a drug or something.
I would have liked to see studies where they compared drinking an entire glass of vinegar to drinking something that tastes like vinegar instead of skipping it entirely. I think the pills would have worked better for this?
It just seems obvious to me that the results are real, sure, but maybe drinking something gross like vinegar curbs appetite regardless of the actual content of the drink.
They did give them placebo beverages! They made them sour by adding acetate.
So just white rice next? Nothing else ?
100mg of thiamine (B1) a day, if that counts :)
Interesting, I just recently looked into white vinegar as a food ingredient but didn't look into it like this. Will have to revisit it.
Probably need way less, 15ml (1 tablespoon) a day should be enough