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Jimmy Slim's avatar

That “Hierarchy of Scientific Evidence” is such a boot in the face to actual scientific innovation. The geniuses who made the biggest breakthroughs did not operate that way. Genius is not so reductive; it pulls together disparate threads of evidence from many different sources. And of course, controlled trials are not the source of innovation; they're mainly good for confirmation after the innovators have made their breakthroughs, and--as you say--only at a broad, population level that might not apply to you personally.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Agreed. Against Method by Feyerabend is a good book about this.

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Tyler Ransom's avatar

You'll notice that I don't put my credentials in my handles (although it can be difficult to hide my identity, so there's only so much I can downplay...)

And congrats on the weight loss! I noticed absolutely nothing from my ACV experiment.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

That's why I like you :D

On the ACV: it might just be that since you've always been somewhat lean, you don't have that problem ACV fixes. Senescent adipocytes?

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JS's avatar

Congrats on your progress! And the last two posts are truly excellent, thanks a lot.

With the whole PhD priesthood thing happening -Universities are becoming a religion as they are dogmatic and hierarchical- a much better way to award a PhD would be for a person to join a research team doing actual meaningful work, and demonstrate capacity to ask the right questions, test their hypothesis, and advance knowledge.

IMHO, epistemology should be what matters, not doing Mickey Mouse research adding zilch to the body of knowledge.

On the ACV side, I am now wondering if I should try it to help slow down aging. I do not see a downside. Cheers!

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Yea, I can't think of a downside either. Jaromir's theory is that it helps rejuvenate senescent (=diseased) adipocytes. Could be worth a try?

And I agree on the priesthood thing. It seems that this happens to every important institution. It's important, people respect it, and then people begin going there just to get the status..

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Will's avatar

Lmao "Dr Garrett Smith" is also "science based"

Should have known better.

Grant Genereux was an engineer. Way more reasonable.

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Drygord's avatar

Do you have visible abs showing? I wonder about the effects of visceral and abdominal fat on the sat fat vs. PUFA diets

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Ha, no, I don't have any abs showing. I'm still around 217lbs which is quite a bit overweight for my height(6'1).

What would the effects be, you think?

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Drygord's avatar

I've been looking through old photos, and even when I was lighter (around 175 to 180) I had a pudgier stomach area. In my recent loss on lowfat / low PUFA, I've gone from 209 or so to 193 and to my surprise my midsection is a lot more defined even than at 175.

I think part of it is that hibernation pathway Brad talks about. But also I wonder if, in general, the visceral and liver fat is being used at a greater rate for some reason.

Either way, keep up the good work and nice to read your articles!

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Thanks!

I've definitely noticed this in some people, some aren't all that fat but have a very pudgy stomach. Others the fat is more spread out. Could very well be you're right.

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☔Jason Murphy's avatar

I followed the link to Jamorir's blog. His ideas about salt and umami are intriguing. Could be funny if, just when MSG is recovering from the initial wave of panic that was, people now agree, ill-founded, a new idea boots it to the kerb again...

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Haha poor MSG can't get a break!

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Robin's avatar

I found some organic ACV pills at Costco online which are 600 mg per pill with no other ingredients besides the veg capsule. They recommend increasing the dosage to 2 pills 3x/day. I have not tried it yet but my teeth are super sensitive to acids so I'm quite intrigued.

https://www.costco.com/p/-/natures-truth-apple-cider-vinegar-1200-mg-180-capsules/100468580?

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Hm, I only see it listing the amount of vinegar powder, not actual acetic acid. The reason I picked Bragg was they were the only brand I could find that listed the acetic acid content itself.

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Robin's avatar

On the Nature's Truth site the ingredients listed are ACV powder, gelatin capsule, rice powder, vegetable magnesium stearate, silica. Costco didn't give a complete list. I contacted the company about the acetic acid content but won't hear back until tomorrow if at all.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Bragg's says 1877mg ACV powder per serving, of which 750mg is acetic acid. That's about 40%. If a similar ratio is contained in this ACV powder, it'd be about 480mg acetic acid per serving.

But no clue if all ACV powders are similar or completely different, so probably safer to inquire.

Thanks for contacting them!

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Robin's avatar

Nature's Truth finally got back to me and it's pretty disappointing: "This is a follow-up email regarding the previous inquiry. I have validated, and I would like to inform you that this product contains "acetic acid content". It would be naturally occurring and not assayed for content." So, don't sell your Bragg stock yet ; )

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Haha sounds like I need to go into the vinegar business ;)

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Robin's avatar

Good point, glad I didn't order them yet. Thanks!

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Sybella's avatar

By the way. How’s your sleep pattern theses days…still good? I hope it is.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Yes, still pretty good! Night owl tho, haha.

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Stephen Coda's avatar

Before all the hilarity Mike Israetel once said (sort of joking, but you know, not) that the concerns about seed oils was a right wing conspiracy theory. That was all the red flags I needed.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

I didn't hear that one, but I heard clips of him downplaying it and saying seed oils are just bad cause they're in UPF and they're full of carolies.. among the CICObots, he's one of the more boring ones. His diet stuff is so milquetoast I couldn't pick it out of a lineup in Vermont. On his lifting/bodybuilding/roids advice, no clue, I don't do those.

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Robin's avatar

I am from Vermont (originally) and I have never heard that one. It's definitely going in the files.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Nice place (originally)

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Sybella's avatar

Wot about Keneth Berry and his ‘Proper Human Diet’

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

I'm not familiar with his diet. I know of Ken Berry and I think I'm not his target audience. He's trying to get people into trying low-carb. I'm 9.9 years into keto, and did low-carb at various times before that. Frankly, without trying to sound like a dick, I think I know more than Ken ;)

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Asa's avatar

ken “dad bod” berry. snake diet guy. lol

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Snake diet is Cole Robinson, isn't it? In fairness, Cole is the opposite of the credential-seeking people in this post heh.

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Asa's avatar

yeah he’s a trip. he is constantly ripping on baker, chafee, and berry. calls them fat, dad bods. hilarious

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

I don't like him. He's a BS artist. Constantly making bogus claims about the diets he's (currently) promoting and then walking them back, without ever admitting being wrong..

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Sybella's avatar

👍🏻

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The Other End of the Galaxy's avatar

How did you decide on taking 3 ACV capsules/day (750 mg acetic acid)? Also, is there a Bragg ACV product that doesn't contain other stuff? On their website, it looks like they sell a 'plain' version, but actually they add vitamin D3 & zinc.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

No, all their stuff contains other stuff. I've gone through one bottle of the ACV+B vitamins and am currently on one of ACV+zinc/vD.

750mg acetic is 1. their recommended daily serving size and 2. pretty much exactly what's in 1tbsp (15ml) of 5% vinegar. In the human studies, 1tbsp was a common dose that elicited the effect, although some used 5mg/10mg/15mg and I believe one study had 1tbsp and 2tbsp groups. In that one, the 2tbsp group got the effect faster, but didn't end up losing more weight than the 1tbsp group over 3 months IIRC.

So I figured, just go with the 1tbsp/750mg acetic acid dose and see what happens. Seems to work. Not sure if more would do more, but one could certainly try.

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Kerry Hulett's avatar

Well done and an enjoyable read also.

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Experimental Fat Loss's avatar

Thanks!

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