Satiety is such an odd thing - I have trouble eating a 3 egg omelet. Deviled eggs? just back away from the platter and there will be no trouble. Can eat a whole rib eye with butter, was having trouble today with 8 oz (4x2oz) gr beef patties. Can drink tea with cream all day - get full after 2 coffees....... just weird...... we are all an N1 experiment with each morsel. right now into basal temp - had NO CLUE I was THIS low......... testing what food does to it ....... testing supplements ...... TESTING TESTING TESTING - swore I wouldn't take any more tests when I finished college........................... uh-huh................
Yea there are definitely weird things. I.e. if something is too high in fat (pure tallow) I can't stomach it on its own. Butter is better. Cream, I can consume near infinity.
Coffee is much stronger than tea, so easier to put more cream in.
I keep chuckling about the egg comments. My non-scientific assessment is that most americans are so bad at cooking eggs that they're able to overcome the 'munchies' caused by the linoleic acid in the yolks. That's what causes the 'satiety' - the food isn't that good, but there are cultural expectations of eggs in certain contexts, a kind of habit-craving rather than a physiological craving. People who have a hard time experiencing satiety are a different story, of course, and can add unlimited fried eggs to practically any meal.
The changes in your experience of things is fascinating. After two months on ex150 coffee now tastes bad, I dislike cocoa, protein is more satiating, and even on this all-starch thing I'm doing now I'm still obsessed with pickles.
Have you tried monthly fasted dxa scanning to see if you’re possibly body recomping and gaining muscle? Or apps like zozofit or measuring your waistband?
Do you have gut, inflammation or thyroid issues at all? Bathroom movements come out as perfect logs? Gut issues can often cause metabolic issues
Yea I do a DEXA every month, if not fasted. But similar conditions, i.e. a few coffees in me before I go.
They don't show me exchanging tons of muscle for fat, although I also seem to have just the same amount of lean mass as when I started. So I probably lost a few pounds of structural stuff (excess skin or something) and gained a few pounds of muscle.
No, my gut feels fine, hyperthyroid if anything & inflammation seems fine (CRP). I eat very low fiber so it's barely even logs, lol, very low volume but daily & no issues there. Best digestion I've ever had.
So there is a seasonality to it. Hmmmm. Do you track bloodwork multiple times a year? Maybe there is blood marker that correlates with your lack of weight loss, like Vitamin D? Do you have a log of the temperature / humidity inside your house vs. outside? Does mold grow / recede in your house more in the summer vs winter? I wonder what other seasonal things you could track to see if there is something.
Also wonder if there is anything interesting about your genetics at this point, but its hard to extract good nutritional info from a genome sequencing for most people
Yea I do tons of bloodwork regularly. My vitamin D is low in the winter so I supplement. I don't in the summer. I don't have a log, but I pretty much keep my place at 72-75°F year round. Mold: hard to tell, I'm not aware of any, but mold is sneaky so..
It might not be actually seasonal, it might just be a timing thing that happens to coincide with the seasons.
E.g. what if it's:
1. Lose some fat, releasing stored PUFAs
2. PUFA messes you up for 3-6 months
3. Spend 3-6 months rebuilding cell membranes w/o all that PUFA
But seriously, I guess if you're gaining strength atm you just keep doing what you're doing. Maybe in the future you could add some higher protein spells to try and increase the muscle gain ... what happens if you add a little more ground beef to ex150 so it becomes ex250/ex300, does that ruin the whole thing?
It's really hard to say, because the data is noisy enough as it is. I did ex225 last year, and didn't lose any weight. Then I went back to ex150 and lost weight again. Was that caused by the extra protein? I don't know.
Found your substack by accident after searching "calories are a tautology". Never been so eager to reading notes--ok, besides Joseph Everett's ones :)
Protein restriction--or rather exclusion--always sounded crazy to me (a minimal ratio of 0.8g to kg of bodyweight before getting sick as far as I was concerned), but it seems you're doing great so I guess I have no dog in this fight lol.
You talk about craving sauce. Coming from a keto perspective, tomato sauce is very high in carbs. Even with no added sugar the tomatoes' natural sugar is concentrated in a sauce. For example Rao's marinara, made with no added sugar, is 5 grams of net carbs per 1/2 cup serving. A whole jar is 25 grams net carbs.
In addition, 1 cup of heavy whipping cream contains 6.6 grams of carbs. Not sure how much you eat in a day. It would be interesting to know your typical daily carb count including sauce, vegetables, and cream.
That's not very high. I add about 80-100g of sauce per serving, their serving size is 125 IIRC. So I'm getting less than 5g every other day. I am ketogenic af eating this when I measure.
I eat around 650ml of heavy cream per day on average, so I do end up with nearly 30g of total carbs per day.
I know you want accelerated results, but maybe the process requires some plateaus. It makes logical sense to think that the principles of homeostasis apply to our bodies, and the rate of weight loss would decelerate over time.
One thing that happened to me as I was losing weight and exercising concurrently was a drop in my RHR (Resting Heart Rate), so essentially I became more efficient, thus reducing the total energy expenditure (pure speculation, I tested nothing during the entire 4-year journey and continue to test nothing!). My fitness watch does tell me what my average RHR is, and the HRV (Heart Rate Variability) as well.
The body recomp notion that some here mentioned is another plausible explanation, but given your food intake the pathway fat - muscle may be different.
How frustrating! With the improved strength however, it sounds like you very well could be replacing fat with muscle.
Yea maybe a bit, but it felt much better losing 4-8lbs of fat a month ;) I think I'd trade a few more months of that for not gaining muscle a bit.
Satiety is such an odd thing - I have trouble eating a 3 egg omelet. Deviled eggs? just back away from the platter and there will be no trouble. Can eat a whole rib eye with butter, was having trouble today with 8 oz (4x2oz) gr beef patties. Can drink tea with cream all day - get full after 2 coffees....... just weird...... we are all an N1 experiment with each morsel. right now into basal temp - had NO CLUE I was THIS low......... testing what food does to it ....... testing supplements ...... TESTING TESTING TESTING - swore I wouldn't take any more tests when I finished college........................... uh-huh................
Yea there are definitely weird things. I.e. if something is too high in fat (pure tallow) I can't stomach it on its own. Butter is better. Cream, I can consume near infinity.
Coffee is much stronger than tea, so easier to put more cream in.
I keep chuckling about the egg comments. My non-scientific assessment is that most americans are so bad at cooking eggs that they're able to overcome the 'munchies' caused by the linoleic acid in the yolks. That's what causes the 'satiety' - the food isn't that good, but there are cultural expectations of eggs in certain contexts, a kind of habit-craving rather than a physiological craving. People who have a hard time experiencing satiety are a different story, of course, and can add unlimited fried eggs to practically any meal.
The changes in your experience of things is fascinating. After two months on ex150 coffee now tastes bad, I dislike cocoa, protein is more satiating, and even on this all-starch thing I'm doing now I'm still obsessed with pickles.
Your pickles are my tomato sauce lol
Have you tried monthly fasted dxa scanning to see if you’re possibly body recomping and gaining muscle? Or apps like zozofit or measuring your waistband?
Do you have gut, inflammation or thyroid issues at all? Bathroom movements come out as perfect logs? Gut issues can often cause metabolic issues
Yea I do a DEXA every month, if not fasted. But similar conditions, i.e. a few coffees in me before I go.
They don't show me exchanging tons of muscle for fat, although I also seem to have just the same amount of lean mass as when I started. So I probably lost a few pounds of structural stuff (excess skin or something) and gained a few pounds of muscle.
No, my gut feels fine, hyperthyroid if anything & inflammation seems fine (CRP). I eat very low fiber so it's barely even logs, lol, very low volume but daily & no issues there. Best digestion I've ever had.
So there is a seasonality to it. Hmmmm. Do you track bloodwork multiple times a year? Maybe there is blood marker that correlates with your lack of weight loss, like Vitamin D? Do you have a log of the temperature / humidity inside your house vs. outside? Does mold grow / recede in your house more in the summer vs winter? I wonder what other seasonal things you could track to see if there is something.
Also wonder if there is anything interesting about your genetics at this point, but its hard to extract good nutritional info from a genome sequencing for most people
Yea I do tons of bloodwork regularly. My vitamin D is low in the winter so I supplement. I don't in the summer. I don't have a log, but I pretty much keep my place at 72-75°F year round. Mold: hard to tell, I'm not aware of any, but mold is sneaky so..
It might not be actually seasonal, it might just be a timing thing that happens to coincide with the seasons.
E.g. what if it's:
1. Lose some fat, releasing stored PUFAs
2. PUFA messes you up for 3-6 months
3. Spend 3-6 months rebuilding cell membranes w/o all that PUFA
4. Goto 1
clearly you need more protein to gain muscle! :D
But seriously, I guess if you're gaining strength atm you just keep doing what you're doing. Maybe in the future you could add some higher protein spells to try and increase the muscle gain ... what happens if you add a little more ground beef to ex150 so it becomes ex250/ex300, does that ruin the whole thing?
It's really hard to say, because the data is noisy enough as it is. I did ex225 last year, and didn't lose any weight. Then I went back to ex150 and lost weight again. Was that caused by the extra protein? I don't know.
Found your substack by accident after searching "calories are a tautology". Never been so eager to reading notes--ok, besides Joseph Everett's ones :)
Protein restriction--or rather exclusion--always sounded crazy to me (a minimal ratio of 0.8g to kg of bodyweight before getting sick as far as I was concerned), but it seems you're doing great so I guess I have no dog in this fight lol.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks!
You talk about craving sauce. Coming from a keto perspective, tomato sauce is very high in carbs. Even with no added sugar the tomatoes' natural sugar is concentrated in a sauce. For example Rao's marinara, made with no added sugar, is 5 grams of net carbs per 1/2 cup serving. A whole jar is 25 grams net carbs.
In addition, 1 cup of heavy whipping cream contains 6.6 grams of carbs. Not sure how much you eat in a day. It would be interesting to know your typical daily carb count including sauce, vegetables, and cream.
That's not very high. I add about 80-100g of sauce per serving, their serving size is 125 IIRC. So I'm getting less than 5g every other day. I am ketogenic af eating this when I measure.
I eat around 650ml of heavy cream per day on average, so I do end up with nearly 30g of total carbs per day.
I know you want accelerated results, but maybe the process requires some plateaus. It makes logical sense to think that the principles of homeostasis apply to our bodies, and the rate of weight loss would decelerate over time.
One thing that happened to me as I was losing weight and exercising concurrently was a drop in my RHR (Resting Heart Rate), so essentially I became more efficient, thus reducing the total energy expenditure (pure speculation, I tested nothing during the entire 4-year journey and continue to test nothing!). My fitness watch does tell me what my average RHR is, and the HRV (Heart Rate Variability) as well.
The body recomp notion that some here mentioned is another plausible explanation, but given your food intake the pathway fat - muscle may be different.
Good luck!
Thanks! Yea it might just take some time. It seems to have picked up again last winter, so maybe this winter too?
And worst case, this isn't so bad. I'm very active, feel great, wear size L shirts and 34 or 36 pants.. this is already a huge success :)