> Last time on the fat fasts, my workouts absolutely tanked. I went down 50% in several lifts, and, a few times, I nearly blacked out (!) while exercising, feeling my vision shrink.
This I recognise from my athletic youth. During long races, say twenty minutes or more, if I really overdid it, my vision would dim and the peripheral vision would go. It didn't even help speed-wise, because my technique would fall apart at the same time.
I once described this to a proper rower, the sort that competes against other countries, and he said "That's nothing! Every time I do an ergo I go blind!".
Probably what's happening here is that you're getting low on glycogen. If you're not eating carbs and you haven't got enough protein to do gluconeogenesis, you can probably run out of short-term fuel very quickly with not much effort.
> I think for now the most reasonable assumption is that the first fat fast was an exception, and, in general, lowering protein much further than ex150 doesn’t help at all, and the monotony (or lack of protein) of the fat fasts leads to behavioral issues.
This sounds right, we need a certain amount of protein for maintenance.
I imagine that what's going on with the (protein restriction fixes appetite idea) has something to do with burning excess protein for fuel, sticking it into the energy cycle and interfering with something. That's going to happen if protein intake is above the required amount.
But reduce protein intake below that essential level and you'll get actual protein deficiency, which I'd imagine involves cravings and metabolising your own muscles as an emergency measure.
One can cover a multitude of fuckarounditis by putting on a white lab coat with a nametag that reads "scientist". For instance, even though I soldiered on through a 6-day plateau on potatoes (inspired by your last long plateau), by the end I'd already decided to do an experiment. I'm on day three of attempting to stimulate FGF21 production in the morning by consuming 500 calories of pure sugar before fasting all afternoon (and then eating potatoes for dinner). Might be a total failure in terms of weight-loss, but it's an interesting experiment. Of course, if it is a success, I have no way to disambiguate the fgf21 effects from replacing 500 calories of my regular food with something zero protein. During the plateau I became concerned I was experiencing down-regulatin of metabolism, and this is an attempt in the opposite direction. We shall see.
Interesting, is this sort of like a Shangri La approach? That might well be how that diet worked. I suspect that my eating cream is a speedrun to stimulate FGF21 as well.
I really wonder. He used all kinds of foods to try to decrease appetite, didn't he? I found that the sugar made me ravenous, but I sure stopped suspecting my metabolism had been downregulated. I was hungry and hyper. Stopped after three days, finding it harder since then to stick to taters. (Hyper in a "boy sure hope nobody rear-ends me today or I'm gonna end up on the news, hyper" way. First day I didn't sit down at all. My conclusion is that combining a giant dose of glucose and a really long hike every three weeks might be really helpful.)
I don't really know, but I suppose he might've experimented a long time until he found what worked (for him). If both sugar and oil work, that'd be really curious. Then again it seems like sugar didn't work for you.
idea is to simulate a 5 day fast without truly fasting. average daily calories 1000. but extremely well done to reduce hunger.
those are serious academics, not hucksters.
details are long. but I credit doing this twice + adapting style into my habits to a big eating improvement journey.
I was never fat. rather 5+ kg above optimal. still found it hard to go long without food. doing this kinda helped change eating dynamics. and "fasting" 5 days with their packages was surprisingly easy
I think it's a "pica" which is when your body develops a weird craving that is actually unrelated, it's more of a proxy. Like my body associating protein with those sauces, probably, because I eat my meat with them.
> Last time on the fat fasts, my workouts absolutely tanked. I went down 50% in several lifts, and, a few times, I nearly blacked out (!) while exercising, feeling my vision shrink.
This I recognise from my athletic youth. During long races, say twenty minutes or more, if I really overdid it, my vision would dim and the peripheral vision would go. It didn't even help speed-wise, because my technique would fall apart at the same time.
I once described this to a proper rower, the sort that competes against other countries, and he said "That's nothing! Every time I do an ergo I go blind!".
Probably what's happening here is that you're getting low on glycogen. If you're not eating carbs and you haven't got enough protein to do gluconeogenesis, you can probably run out of short-term fuel very quickly with not much effort.
> I think for now the most reasonable assumption is that the first fat fast was an exception, and, in general, lowering protein much further than ex150 doesn’t help at all, and the monotony (or lack of protein) of the fat fasts leads to behavioral issues.
This sounds right, we need a certain amount of protein for maintenance.
I imagine that what's going on with the (protein restriction fixes appetite idea) has something to do with burning excess protein for fuel, sticking it into the energy cycle and interfering with something. That's going to happen if protein intake is above the required amount.
But reduce protein intake below that essential level and you'll get actual protein deficiency, which I'd imagine involves cravings and metabolising your own muscles as an emergency measure.
Good luck!
Thanks!
One can cover a multitude of fuckarounditis by putting on a white lab coat with a nametag that reads "scientist". For instance, even though I soldiered on through a 6-day plateau on potatoes (inspired by your last long plateau), by the end I'd already decided to do an experiment. I'm on day three of attempting to stimulate FGF21 production in the morning by consuming 500 calories of pure sugar before fasting all afternoon (and then eating potatoes for dinner). Might be a total failure in terms of weight-loss, but it's an interesting experiment. Of course, if it is a success, I have no way to disambiguate the fgf21 effects from replacing 500 calories of my regular food with something zero protein. During the plateau I became concerned I was experiencing down-regulatin of metabolism, and this is an attempt in the opposite direction. We shall see.
Interesting, is this sort of like a Shangri La approach? That might well be how that diet worked. I suspect that my eating cream is a speedrun to stimulate FGF21 as well.
I really wonder. He used all kinds of foods to try to decrease appetite, didn't he? I found that the sugar made me ravenous, but I sure stopped suspecting my metabolism had been downregulated. I was hungry and hyper. Stopped after three days, finding it harder since then to stick to taters. (Hyper in a "boy sure hope nobody rear-ends me today or I'm gonna end up on the news, hyper" way. First day I didn't sit down at all. My conclusion is that combining a giant dose of glucose and a really long hike every three weeks might be really helpful.)
I don't really know, but I suppose he might've experimented a long time until he found what worked (for him). If both sugar and oil work, that'd be really curious. Then again it seems like sugar didn't work for you.
have a look at FMD. fast mimicking diet.
https://prolonlife.com/products/prolon-offer
idea is to simulate a 5 day fast without truly fasting. average daily calories 1000. but extremely well done to reduce hunger.
those are serious academics, not hucksters.
details are long. but I credit doing this twice + adapting style into my habits to a big eating improvement journey.
I was never fat. rather 5+ kg above optimal. still found it hard to go long without food. doing this kinda helped change eating dynamics. and "fasting" 5 days with their packages was surprisingly easy
cheers
I've done 5 day actual fasts/2 day refeed, and even that didn't work :(
I consider Longo a huckster btw. Almost all "serious academics" in nutrition are.
this one is a different "fast". because your aren't being meaningfully hungry.
I didn't do any refeed after doing those. there was no urge
I find it amusing that you crave tomato and alfredo sauces so intensely.
I think it's a "pica" which is when your body develops a weird craving that is actually unrelated, it's more of a proxy. Like my body associating protein with those sauces, probably, because I eat my meat with them.