Since you called for participants, I might as well let you know that I'm nearing the end of my first full week on a modified ex150. Let's call mine ex150lazy, since the key distinctive is that I'm drinking heavy cream (supplemented by coconut oil and sometimes butter in the form of bulletproof coffees) all day, but having one full-sized meal at night.
The reason for this is that I have a wife and a teenager, and they'll kill me if I try to feed them 150g of ground beef and vegetables daily. Since I'm the primary cook in my household, I'm basically cooking normal meals for us every night, which tends towards high protein and low carbs, but isn't rigorously keeping to any particular macro schedule. (For example, tonight's dinner was a cheese omlette, perfectly keto-friendly; last night's was nachos with homemade cheese sauce and ground beef, which has a significant amount of carbs in the tortilla chips but is calorically mostly proteins and fats.) So far the results have been phenomenal, but then again it's only been a week. I'll keep you posted, and if you're interested I can send you my data after it's been a month.
That sounds great! I've been wondering if it really matters if that one meal is keto or not. Wish you all the best of success, and yes, please do let me know :)
It's pretty amazing, and should be considered a win that he didn't GAIN weight. Especially considering he added Sugar to the cream through berries that would not help with the ketosis.
He is very active. First CrossFit, then the lifting. Also just in general runs around a lot and very busy. So I could see it. My RMR was tested at 2,300kcal, and TDEE estimated at 3,200kcal, and I don't exercise at all.
But yea it's an insane amount of energy.
One thing I like about the result is, it shows this isn't a "keto/ex150 lowers your appetite -> caloric intake." A healthy/lean/active person had exactly the right appetite and therefore intake on this to maintain stable weight.
I am overweight: 192.7# this morning, 8.7# from BMI 25 - 6' tall - and ~10# from the 83 kg class. When I started eating ganache my weight dropped under 190# briefly and then bounced back up to 192ish and stabilized. It does take me 3-4 days to get through a pint of cream and a bag of 72% chocolate chips worth of ganache; I sit in a chair 40+ hours/week. My lifts remain stable. One of the entertainments of this for my SO is that she can get me to eat salads now; my stomach is empty, so she can introduce leaves and so on if she wants to. Lunch is, half the time, a tin of chili sardines, ganache for dessert. Breakfast is cold-brew coffee, black. Dinner, if Christa doesn't foist a salad on me, is nothing.
I'm considering becoming a subject. But, I would need to discuss the trial with you and some important tangents (like how to handle going out to eat). Use exprotonmailex at proton dot me. I can respond from there.
When I consumed a lot of heavy cream myself I likewise didn't gain any weight, and I'm 172 5'11 or so. I'm also quite active myself, and after stopping I'm actually super hungry most days as I'm not able to get down as many calories as before lol. I consumed sound 1800 to 3600 kcal of cream daily on top of 8 eggs, some butter (around 25-50g), as well as ground beef in various amounts, though normalized around ~500g.
Haha, I do go in and out of ketosis, and I don't fear carbs, especially with how high my metabolism is as well as my activity levels, though I have mental health issues if I am off keto for too long, and my mood tends to noticeably degrade as well, so I am still trying to figure stuff out. 😅 Though I do seem to do fine on lower/moderate carb in general where I can still feel good I just won't feel _amazingly good_, it's high carb where I tend to run into severe issues over time I have noticed, but I need to do proper experiments eventually.
Yea. I've noticed that, for my Non24, I don't need to be super deep in ketosis. 0.5mmol/L is easily enough. So I can actually eat quite a bit of carbs and near infinite protein to keep the Non24 in remission. But, maybe, not to lose fat?
To clarify, I'm not 100% convinced high ketones have anything to do with fat loss in me or in general. Maybe they do, maybe they're both symptoms of something else (low protein/insulin?), maybe total coincidence.
I wouldn't know about the six pack part. A lot of it might be genetic, too. I know people who've always been very lean but never had visible abs.
Participation: great, thanks :D Still more of a vague thought, but if I get a handful of people I would love to have others try it and see if I just found "my special freak diet" haha.
Although I've informally improvised (not cheated, but rather tried different exceptions) over the past few months, I've been fairly consistently KetoAF with either adequate or low protein. I wouldn't say that it was ex150 (more protein than that and very little, if any, dairy). I think my improvisations contributed to a major weight gain over the past 2 months (from a low of 184 to my current 202 - I'm 5'10"). Right now, I'm consuming a minimum of 8 oz beef fat trimmings daily, and around a pound of chuck steak, plus something in the neighborhood of a pint of HWC. Recently started drinking coffee, which I haven't in the past enjoyed, but a cup of coffee that is 20-25% cream by volume is delicious and helps curb my appetite.
My point is that I have three concerns about attempting strict ex150:
1. Ad libitum. I have good reason to believe my satiety signaling is malfunctioning. Since I am rather sedentary (I do HIIT and resistance on MWF, but the total time is <1 hour), I'm afraid of overeating.
2. Low protein. I'm 50 and I am given to understand that there is a strong correlation between longevity and skeletal muscle. I'm concerned about sacrificing such and not being able to recover it later.
3. Dairy protein sensitivity. How do I know if I'm sensitive to dairy proteins? I certainly have enjoyed it all my life, without stomach upset, etc. My heritage has some pastoral cultures, but not entirely. How can I know how much, if any, insulin response I'm triggering from HWC consumption? (I also love cheese, but am not currently consuming any, even raw, goat cheese.)
I'm thrilled to observe your continued progress with ex150, and would like to join you, but given my concerns and my recent 15+ lbs regain, I wonder …
Thoughts?
(P.S. I also have one or two medical conditions that I won't discuss publicly but would disclose privately.)
1. I can totally see that. Given that I can easily gain 15lbs in 2 weeks on ad libitum dirty keto (even if maybe half of that is water) that can be concerning. And I obviously can't guarantee you'll hit satiety, or that you won't gain weight, on ex150. After all, so far, only 2 people have done it, me and my buddy.
2. Also good concern. I've also read that after a certain age, especially in women, muscle retention becomes a problem and higher protein can help them. I am 37 and I've had plenty of muscle from weightlifting in the past, so I don't personally worry about muscle loss. I'd happily take 10lbs of weight loss if 1 or even 2 of the pounds were muscle, because I have the muscle to spare and will easily put it back on. That might not be the case for you.
3. I think this one you can only really trial & error. It seems that, the more refined the dairy, the fewer people have issues with it. Heavy cream seems totally fine for me, but some people can't even do butter.
In conclusion, you are not an "optimal" ex150 candidate for sure, just because it is a pretty extreme diet and you are not a risk-free candidate. So if you're concerned, that's totally fair and I think you should listen to your instinct there.
Luckily it's not all or nothing; hopefully I'll cajole a few more people into trying it over the next few months. Then if it works for nobody else at all, you don't have to bother. If it works for all of them, at least you'll know there's a pretty decent chance of an upside. Likely it'll work for some, but not all, and then you can kind of guesstimate your own upside and weight it with the downside.
Since you called for participants, I might as well let you know that I'm nearing the end of my first full week on a modified ex150. Let's call mine ex150lazy, since the key distinctive is that I'm drinking heavy cream (supplemented by coconut oil and sometimes butter in the form of bulletproof coffees) all day, but having one full-sized meal at night.
The reason for this is that I have a wife and a teenager, and they'll kill me if I try to feed them 150g of ground beef and vegetables daily. Since I'm the primary cook in my household, I'm basically cooking normal meals for us every night, which tends towards high protein and low carbs, but isn't rigorously keeping to any particular macro schedule. (For example, tonight's dinner was a cheese omlette, perfectly keto-friendly; last night's was nachos with homemade cheese sauce and ground beef, which has a significant amount of carbs in the tortilla chips but is calorically mostly proteins and fats.) So far the results have been phenomenal, but then again it's only been a week. I'll keep you posted, and if you're interested I can send you my data after it's been a month.
That sounds great! I've been wondering if it really matters if that one meal is keto or not. Wish you all the best of success, and yes, please do let me know :)
1.5 Quarts of Heavy Cream is 4320 calories.
It's pretty amazing, and should be considered a win that he didn't GAIN weight. Especially considering he added Sugar to the cream through berries that would not help with the ketosis.
He is very active. First CrossFit, then the lifting. Also just in general runs around a lot and very busy. So I could see it. My RMR was tested at 2,300kcal, and TDEE estimated at 3,200kcal, and I don't exercise at all.
But yea it's an insane amount of energy.
One thing I like about the result is, it shows this isn't a "keto/ex150 lowers your appetite -> caloric intake." A healthy/lean/active person had exactly the right appetite and therefore intake on this to maintain stable weight.
I am overweight: 192.7# this morning, 8.7# from BMI 25 - 6' tall - and ~10# from the 83 kg class. When I started eating ganache my weight dropped under 190# briefly and then bounced back up to 192ish and stabilized. It does take me 3-4 days to get through a pint of cream and a bag of 72% chocolate chips worth of ganache; I sit in a chair 40+ hours/week. My lifts remain stable. One of the entertainments of this for my SO is that she can get me to eat salads now; my stomach is empty, so she can introduce leaves and so on if she wants to. Lunch is, half the time, a tin of chili sardines, ganache for dessert. Breakfast is cold-brew coffee, black. Dinner, if Christa doesn't foist a salad on me, is nothing.
I'm considering becoming a subject. But, I would need to discuss the trial with you and some important tangents (like how to handle going out to eat). Use exprotonmailex at proton dot me. I can respond from there.
Ok sent you one to the corrected email. Somehow I can't reply to that post directly.
Ok, sent you an email.
I got it wrong, it's exprotonemailex. Missed the "e". Oops. Sorry! (It's new).
When I consumed a lot of heavy cream myself I likewise didn't gain any weight, and I'm 172 5'11 or so. I'm also quite active myself, and after stopping I'm actually super hungry most days as I'm not able to get down as many calories as before lol. I consumed sound 1800 to 3600 kcal of cream daily on top of 8 eggs, some butter (around 25-50g), as well as ground beef in various amounts, though normalized around ~500g.
Sounds like you have a very active metabolism, and should consider a hyper-palatable diet :)
Haha, I do go in and out of ketosis, and I don't fear carbs, especially with how high my metabolism is as well as my activity levels, though I have mental health issues if I am off keto for too long, and my mood tends to noticeably degrade as well, so I am still trying to figure stuff out. 😅 Though I do seem to do fine on lower/moderate carb in general where I can still feel good I just won't feel _amazingly good_, it's high carb where I tend to run into severe issues over time I have noticed, but I need to do proper experiments eventually.
Yea. I've noticed that, for my Non24, I don't need to be super deep in ketosis. 0.5mmol/L is easily enough. So I can actually eat quite a bit of carbs and near infinite protein to keep the Non24 in remission. But, maybe, not to lose fat?
Good to know! I hope to get access to a ketone meter eventually so I can do proper testing and evaluation of different diets that suit me.
To clarify, I'm not 100% convinced high ketones have anything to do with fat loss in me or in general. Maybe they do, maybe they're both symptoms of something else (low protein/insulin?), maybe total coincidence.
I'd be interested in doing the experiment but it's hard for me to stay consistent with things...
Yea, consistency is certainly an important part.
Re "six pack": Don't you also have to be at least a little dehydrated to see a "six pack"?
Re participation: What the hell. I'll bite.
I wouldn't know about the six pack part. A lot of it might be genetic, too. I know people who've always been very lean but never had visible abs.
Participation: great, thanks :D Still more of a vague thought, but if I get a handful of people I would love to have others try it and see if I just found "my special freak diet" haha.
Although I've informally improvised (not cheated, but rather tried different exceptions) over the past few months, I've been fairly consistently KetoAF with either adequate or low protein. I wouldn't say that it was ex150 (more protein than that and very little, if any, dairy). I think my improvisations contributed to a major weight gain over the past 2 months (from a low of 184 to my current 202 - I'm 5'10"). Right now, I'm consuming a minimum of 8 oz beef fat trimmings daily, and around a pound of chuck steak, plus something in the neighborhood of a pint of HWC. Recently started drinking coffee, which I haven't in the past enjoyed, but a cup of coffee that is 20-25% cream by volume is delicious and helps curb my appetite.
My point is that I have three concerns about attempting strict ex150:
1. Ad libitum. I have good reason to believe my satiety signaling is malfunctioning. Since I am rather sedentary (I do HIIT and resistance on MWF, but the total time is <1 hour), I'm afraid of overeating.
2. Low protein. I'm 50 and I am given to understand that there is a strong correlation between longevity and skeletal muscle. I'm concerned about sacrificing such and not being able to recover it later.
3. Dairy protein sensitivity. How do I know if I'm sensitive to dairy proteins? I certainly have enjoyed it all my life, without stomach upset, etc. My heritage has some pastoral cultures, but not entirely. How can I know how much, if any, insulin response I'm triggering from HWC consumption? (I also love cheese, but am not currently consuming any, even raw, goat cheese.)
I'm thrilled to observe your continued progress with ex150, and would like to join you, but given my concerns and my recent 15+ lbs regain, I wonder …
Thoughts?
(P.S. I also have one or two medical conditions that I won't discuss publicly but would disclose privately.)
Hey, all very valid concerns.
1. I can totally see that. Given that I can easily gain 15lbs in 2 weeks on ad libitum dirty keto (even if maybe half of that is water) that can be concerning. And I obviously can't guarantee you'll hit satiety, or that you won't gain weight, on ex150. After all, so far, only 2 people have done it, me and my buddy.
2. Also good concern. I've also read that after a certain age, especially in women, muscle retention becomes a problem and higher protein can help them. I am 37 and I've had plenty of muscle from weightlifting in the past, so I don't personally worry about muscle loss. I'd happily take 10lbs of weight loss if 1 or even 2 of the pounds were muscle, because I have the muscle to spare and will easily put it back on. That might not be the case for you.
3. I think this one you can only really trial & error. It seems that, the more refined the dairy, the fewer people have issues with it. Heavy cream seems totally fine for me, but some people can't even do butter.
In conclusion, you are not an "optimal" ex150 candidate for sure, just because it is a pretty extreme diet and you are not a risk-free candidate. So if you're concerned, that's totally fair and I think you should listen to your instinct there.
Luckily it's not all or nothing; hopefully I'll cajole a few more people into trying it over the next few months. Then if it works for nobody else at all, you don't have to bother. If it works for all of them, at least you'll know there's a pretty decent chance of an upside. Likely it'll work for some, but not all, and then you can kind of guesstimate your own upside and weight it with the downside.