It's good that you pointed out soy-based emulsifiers. Soy Lecithin is in so many products and I only realized from reading this post (and doing a tiny bit of research) that it is basically soybean oil.
I've been noticing the broad swath of foods that are tainted by seed oil in some form or another, and it can feel depressing sometimes. We are literally immersed in it, except for raw ingredients.
As much as I like the things you post, I'm over here mashing X to doubt on this one. I'll agree those all -sound- like reasonable, smart, non-metabolic aids, but I haven't seen any evidence they -can- work without some kind of metabolic intervention. I used to go to a gym with big glass windows that overlooked a Krispy Kreme. I'd be in hours a week. Of all the shambling PUFA-eyed zombies I saw going in and out of that donut shop, how many do you suppose were on some kind of clever diet that had their homes empty of unhealthy food, and stocked with enough healthy supposedly-palatable food to last for days? No way of knowing, but the number sure wasn't zero -- it's me. I'm zombies.
Five-ish weeks and 15 pounds ago (back when I didn't eat like a hobbit meme: mash 'em, boil 'em, stick 'em in a stew), I was very slowly gaining weight eating beef, beans, corn tortillas, cheese, butter, coconut oil, vegetables, and the odd sneaky nut or pumpkin seed. It never quite seemed like enough. Now, except following a day when I accidentally undereat, I just eat potatoes and then -stop being hungry-. I now suddenly have the power to make a palatable meal that I don't eat too much of, avoid buying foods I shouldn't eat, tolerate repetitive meals, etc. What happened? Placebo? I dunno but the only other time in my life I lost weight like this I was in an odd time of my life, eating a low-fat vegetarian diet on a commune with no power to shop for myself.
> I haven't seen any evidence they -can- work without some kind of metabolic intervention.
Oh, I totally agree. You can't beat obesity with "this one little trick" if you don't fix the fundamental (metabolic) issues.
Congrats on the potato success :) Sounds like it's going wonderful?
This "miraculous" feeling of sudden satiety is what I have with cream. I literally didn't know this feeling existed before I started ex150, lol. Magical, isn't it?
I may have overstated the suddeness and severity; it's not like what you describe with eating whipped cream, but it's still something new. I'm a good cook, and while potato dishes are an unaccustomed area for me by this point in my life, I can make something so delicious that when I start eating it I can quasi-consciously feel "oh yeah I could eat all of this". And I will indeed eat a fairly large amount by volume, but eventually will happily stop eating. Maybe I'll eat more later. Then the next day I weigh less. Very odd.
Now I have been interested in experiencing the 'cement truck' version, but historically I've struggled so much with keto that I haven't wanted to risk making a miserable two weeks of it trying to get into a state where the whipped cream might actually work, only for it to not work for me personally and then spend two months eating every carb that isn't locked up (as was the case the last time I tried keto). If I continue being successful with potatoes and develop a sense of interior freedom about it, I may 'bite the bullet' as they say at SMTM and try radically different things too. Which brings me to my main point of interest: the interaction between metabolism and morale.
Many of us (whether we visibly look obese or not) have become either completely demoralized (i.e. no longer willing to even try N =1 experiments) or have found some little thing that kinda works for us and are terrified to deviate from it (i.e. deviate into an ABA N=1 test of something else). If, as we now suspect, we've been metabolically crippled as a society this whole brief window of time in which the common man is aware of basic research techniques, the psychological effects of this metabolic damage would themselves explain why we have done so little citizen science. It takes wild mutant autists like you and the potato commissioner to start these experiments.
Honestly I don't think "cement-truck" is worth it if you're already experiencing satiety regularly. I think it's just that it hits much quicker, because the food is essentially all liquid and pre-emulsified.
Agreed on the morale thing. I was demoralized myself after gaining 100lbs back ON KETO and not understanding why. All the keto people told me to eat fewer carbs, eat more protein! Nobody mentioned PUFAs or protein restriction, lol. Cut the dairy! Duh, it's the dairy!
I got re-moralized to experiment by SMTM because of their fantastic blog series, especially the Mysteries of Obesity and the idea that "something is in the water." I had joked for YEARS that something's in the water in the U.S., because I tend to lose weight anywhere else and then quickly regain it here.
PUFAs are not in the water (are they?) but close enough, they might as well be.
- I've been doing the "home made whipped cream" step of your diet for awhile now and there is something going on (I think I mentioned this on reddit) between liquid heavy cream and whipped cream, with respect to satiety. It fundamentally fills you up more, correlated with how much air you whip in. I don't know how to test this on other foods, but for me: it has a powerful effect in whether or not I want to snack on things (and snacks are inevitably likely to be not good for you.
- there is absolutely something to the "repetitive meals" thing. Whatever satiety mechanism humans have, it also senses novelty, and definitely "eating new/different food all the time" signals "we are in times'o'plenty, so pack on that fat"
- cayenne pepper + cinnamon in your coffee/cream -> I pretend this helps boost metabolism, but also tastes great
- BW3's apparently still uses beef tallow for wings, burgers and fries, according to The Reddits. I can't 100% confirm but they sure taste great?
- I think you're right (well, maybe I'm just inferring you to be saying this) that all these non-metabolic hacks (and a ton of other ones you see online) are probably mostly window dressing, and adding just one (or more) to an otherwise unhealthy diet will not reverse the unhealthiness, but added to a basically healthy diet, can increase the beneficial effects by some relatively small %.
- I would be extremely interested in the experiment of: starting from your exfat150, how many grams of carbs/sugar can you add in each day before it starts having a negative effect? I don't have sufficient control over my diet to measure this without being overwhelmed by noise unfortunately.
Interesting. Weird but interesting. I wonder if there are other treatments eg melatonin like you mentioned or Emergence Diet to try to get your brain to burn glucose properly.
Some people can use melatonin, but it's never worked for me. But I've also never tried the medical grade stuff, which is, interestingly lower dosage. Most OTC melatonin (in the US at least) is so crazy high that your body could never produce such an amount naturally, hence it's more like a knockout pill lol. Even cutting them into thirds to get down to 1mg knocked me out for 12h.
I do wonder if long-term Emergence will fix this. I.e. is the glucose burning issue in the brain (or whatever it is) caused by PUFAs, and will I eventually not need ketosis?
Non-24 is a circadian rhythm disorder where ExFatLoss' sleep and wake cycles don't get synchronized to the sun. I'm not sure why it would cause him trouble adding carbs, though.
It's good that you pointed out soy-based emulsifiers. Soy Lecithin is in so many products and I only realized from reading this post (and doing a tiny bit of research) that it is basically soybean oil.
I've been noticing the broad swath of foods that are tainted by seed oil in some form or another, and it can feel depressing sometimes. We are literally immersed in it, except for raw ingredients.
As much as I like the things you post, I'm over here mashing X to doubt on this one. I'll agree those all -sound- like reasonable, smart, non-metabolic aids, but I haven't seen any evidence they -can- work without some kind of metabolic intervention. I used to go to a gym with big glass windows that overlooked a Krispy Kreme. I'd be in hours a week. Of all the shambling PUFA-eyed zombies I saw going in and out of that donut shop, how many do you suppose were on some kind of clever diet that had their homes empty of unhealthy food, and stocked with enough healthy supposedly-palatable food to last for days? No way of knowing, but the number sure wasn't zero -- it's me. I'm zombies.
Five-ish weeks and 15 pounds ago (back when I didn't eat like a hobbit meme: mash 'em, boil 'em, stick 'em in a stew), I was very slowly gaining weight eating beef, beans, corn tortillas, cheese, butter, coconut oil, vegetables, and the odd sneaky nut or pumpkin seed. It never quite seemed like enough. Now, except following a day when I accidentally undereat, I just eat potatoes and then -stop being hungry-. I now suddenly have the power to make a palatable meal that I don't eat too much of, avoid buying foods I shouldn't eat, tolerate repetitive meals, etc. What happened? Placebo? I dunno but the only other time in my life I lost weight like this I was in an odd time of my life, eating a low-fat vegetarian diet on a commune with no power to shop for myself.
> I haven't seen any evidence they -can- work without some kind of metabolic intervention.
Oh, I totally agree. You can't beat obesity with "this one little trick" if you don't fix the fundamental (metabolic) issues.
Congrats on the potato success :) Sounds like it's going wonderful?
This "miraculous" feeling of sudden satiety is what I have with cream. I literally didn't know this feeling existed before I started ex150, lol. Magical, isn't it?
I may have overstated the suddeness and severity; it's not like what you describe with eating whipped cream, but it's still something new. I'm a good cook, and while potato dishes are an unaccustomed area for me by this point in my life, I can make something so delicious that when I start eating it I can quasi-consciously feel "oh yeah I could eat all of this". And I will indeed eat a fairly large amount by volume, but eventually will happily stop eating. Maybe I'll eat more later. Then the next day I weigh less. Very odd.
Now I have been interested in experiencing the 'cement truck' version, but historically I've struggled so much with keto that I haven't wanted to risk making a miserable two weeks of it trying to get into a state where the whipped cream might actually work, only for it to not work for me personally and then spend two months eating every carb that isn't locked up (as was the case the last time I tried keto). If I continue being successful with potatoes and develop a sense of interior freedom about it, I may 'bite the bullet' as they say at SMTM and try radically different things too. Which brings me to my main point of interest: the interaction between metabolism and morale.
Many of us (whether we visibly look obese or not) have become either completely demoralized (i.e. no longer willing to even try N =1 experiments) or have found some little thing that kinda works for us and are terrified to deviate from it (i.e. deviate into an ABA N=1 test of something else). If, as we now suspect, we've been metabolically crippled as a society this whole brief window of time in which the common man is aware of basic research techniques, the psychological effects of this metabolic damage would themselves explain why we have done so little citizen science. It takes wild mutant autists like you and the potato commissioner to start these experiments.
Honestly I don't think "cement-truck" is worth it if you're already experiencing satiety regularly. I think it's just that it hits much quicker, because the food is essentially all liquid and pre-emulsified.
Agreed on the morale thing. I was demoralized myself after gaining 100lbs back ON KETO and not understanding why. All the keto people told me to eat fewer carbs, eat more protein! Nobody mentioned PUFAs or protein restriction, lol. Cut the dairy! Duh, it's the dairy!
I got re-moralized to experiment by SMTM because of their fantastic blog series, especially the Mysteries of Obesity and the idea that "something is in the water." I had joked for YEARS that something's in the water in the U.S., because I tend to lose weight anywhere else and then quickly regain it here.
PUFAs are not in the water (are they?) but close enough, they might as well be.
related personal experiences:
- I've been doing the "home made whipped cream" step of your diet for awhile now and there is something going on (I think I mentioned this on reddit) between liquid heavy cream and whipped cream, with respect to satiety. It fundamentally fills you up more, correlated with how much air you whip in. I don't know how to test this on other foods, but for me: it has a powerful effect in whether or not I want to snack on things (and snacks are inevitably likely to be not good for you.
- there is absolutely something to the "repetitive meals" thing. Whatever satiety mechanism humans have, it also senses novelty, and definitely "eating new/different food all the time" signals "we are in times'o'plenty, so pack on that fat"
- cayenne pepper + cinnamon in your coffee/cream -> I pretend this helps boost metabolism, but also tastes great
- BW3's apparently still uses beef tallow for wings, burgers and fries, according to The Reddits. I can't 100% confirm but they sure taste great?
- I think you're right (well, maybe I'm just inferring you to be saying this) that all these non-metabolic hacks (and a ton of other ones you see online) are probably mostly window dressing, and adding just one (or more) to an otherwise unhealthy diet will not reverse the unhealthiness, but added to a basically healthy diet, can increase the beneficial effects by some relatively small %.
- I would be extremely interested in the experiment of: starting from your exfat150, how many grams of carbs/sugar can you add in each day before it starts having a negative effect? I don't have sufficient control over my diet to measure this without being overwhelmed by noise unfortunately.
Yea, not sure it's just window dressing but definitely not make it or break it. It probably helps, to a degree.
Unfortunately non-ketogenic diets are tricky for me because of the Non-24, so I'm having a hard time adding carbs :(
you need a ready supply of undergrads to experiment on, like those cool psych researchers have!
What is Non24?
https://www.exfatloss.com/p/keto-has-put-my-non-24-into-remission
Interesting. Weird but interesting. I wonder if there are other treatments eg melatonin like you mentioned or Emergence Diet to try to get your brain to burn glucose properly.
Some people can use melatonin, but it's never worked for me. But I've also never tried the medical grade stuff, which is, interestingly lower dosage. Most OTC melatonin (in the US at least) is so crazy high that your body could never produce such an amount naturally, hence it's more like a knockout pill lol. Even cutting them into thirds to get down to 1mg knocked me out for 12h.
I do wonder if long-term Emergence will fix this. I.e. is the glucose burning issue in the brain (or whatever it is) caused by PUFAs, and will I eventually not need ketosis?
Not very hopeful, but who knows.
Non-24 is a circadian rhythm disorder where ExFatLoss' sleep and wake cycles don't get synchronized to the sun. I'm not sure why it would cause him trouble adding carbs, though.
Because keto fixes it :) So if I add enough carbs to get out of ketosis, I won't be able to function in society lol.