fwiw, a possible “it’s low protein and low carbs doing it, but insulin is not the mechanism” would be mTOR inhibition and downstream of that, AMPK activation. iirc protein and carbs suggest to your body it’s time to build things, which activates mTOR and can lead to not breaking down things like fat. The reason Bulletproof Coffee works f…
fwiw, a possible “it’s low protein and low carbs doing it, but insulin is not the mechanism” would be mTOR inhibition and downstream of that, AMPK activation. iirc protein and carbs suggest to your body it’s time to build things, which activates mTOR and can lead to not breaking down things like fat. The reason Bulletproof Coffee works for so many (very similar to your cream in your coffee) is fat does not really activate mTOR, or at least we think that’s why it works for people. Many fasting benefits come downstream of mTOR de-activating when you haven’t eaten in a while. You can search for anecdotes of people adding protein to Bulletproof Coffee to see what people say, it ruins some weight loss but not for everyone. You might find useful stuff comparing results of people who added collagen or gelatin versus something higher in BCAAs!
Oh, you may already know this too but just in case: people maybe actually die when their *only* source of protein is gelatin, so when you get into low BCAA experiments DEFINITELY make sure you dig into that. iirc the first time I heard about it decades ago, someone tried making a meal replacement drink with only gelatin for protein because it was cheap, and people died trying it for weight loss. Looks like this is it, it’s not totally conclusive: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/28/archives/data-suggest-tie-between-15-deaths-and-liquid-diet.html
I know there are genetic disorders that require low BCAA diets, like maple syrup urine disease, so they’re possible. It might also interest you to know that’s treated with thiamine, which is really important for regulating blood sugar, and which deficiency leads to type 2 diabetes and exercise intolerance and congestive heart failure and all sorts of metabolic problems, not mention digestive and mood disorders (including psychosis in severe cases of alcoholism). The modern American diet is typically deficient in thiamine because it gets depleted digesting carbohydrates, and by drinking alcohol, or consuming foods high in anti-thiamine factors like tea, coffee, and raw fish.
The forms of protein matter a lot beyond BCAAs too, because you need things like tryptophan, tyrosine, glycine, glutamine, glutamate, etc to make neurotransmitters and hormones and such, and iirc some regulate heart rhythm and maintain circulation and clotting etc. Some of them, like taurine, are necessary to even break down fat because bile doesn’t work without them. Amino acids are an area where I think it’s okay to see what happens on lower amounts but you really don’t want to eliminate most even for a relatively short experiment.
fwiw, ime the idea of “essential” and “nonessential” amino acids is dumb because there are so many reasons (genetics, other micronutrients in the diet) a person may not be able to *keep pace* with synthesizing *enough* of a “nonessential” amino acid to do various things in the body, even if they can make some. Outright fasting is different because your body switches tons of levers to survive by unblocking access to scavenge your cells/tissues for resources, but when you’re digesting food you’re signalling your body to prioritize doing stuff with the food coming in, so it keeps other resources locked away. You can run out of stuff to potentially dangerous effect if the ratios of what’s coming in really imbalance anything you might be low in; even if it’s in the short term, if it’s something critical to say heart rhythm or clotting, it may not matter if *hours later* your cellular signaling finally unblocks access to things your body needs, because you had a heart attack or stroke before it settled. So just be careful to research any amino acids you may be lacking when you start doing protein experiments!
Agreed on "essential" things (not just AAs). I mean it's a bar, but a very low one. Probably not useful except in starvation situations.
Thanks for the gelatin tip; I wasn't going to reduce my regular protein intake, only add gelatin (or collagen?) to it. So I should be getting at least the same amounts of everything, unless the ratios matter a lot here.
The mTOR thing is interesting, yea. It's so complicated and influences pretty much anything.
I actually did bulletproof coffee for years before just switching to cream, as cream is easier, cheaper, no need for a blender, and tastes better :) Plus exact same effect, unless you're out for the extra ketones from MCT oil. (Which isn't a problem I have, since I'm doing a ketogenic diet anyway, unlike Asprey.)
fwiw, a possible “it’s low protein and low carbs doing it, but insulin is not the mechanism” would be mTOR inhibition and downstream of that, AMPK activation. iirc protein and carbs suggest to your body it’s time to build things, which activates mTOR and can lead to not breaking down things like fat. The reason Bulletproof Coffee works for so many (very similar to your cream in your coffee) is fat does not really activate mTOR, or at least we think that’s why it works for people. Many fasting benefits come downstream of mTOR de-activating when you haven’t eaten in a while. You can search for anecdotes of people adding protein to Bulletproof Coffee to see what people say, it ruins some weight loss but not for everyone. You might find useful stuff comparing results of people who added collagen or gelatin versus something higher in BCAAs!
Oh, you may already know this too but just in case: people maybe actually die when their *only* source of protein is gelatin, so when you get into low BCAA experiments DEFINITELY make sure you dig into that. iirc the first time I heard about it decades ago, someone tried making a meal replacement drink with only gelatin for protein because it was cheap, and people died trying it for weight loss. Looks like this is it, it’s not totally conclusive: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/28/archives/data-suggest-tie-between-15-deaths-and-liquid-diet.html
I know there are genetic disorders that require low BCAA diets, like maple syrup urine disease, so they’re possible. It might also interest you to know that’s treated with thiamine, which is really important for regulating blood sugar, and which deficiency leads to type 2 diabetes and exercise intolerance and congestive heart failure and all sorts of metabolic problems, not mention digestive and mood disorders (including psychosis in severe cases of alcoholism). The modern American diet is typically deficient in thiamine because it gets depleted digesting carbohydrates, and by drinking alcohol, or consuming foods high in anti-thiamine factors like tea, coffee, and raw fish.
The forms of protein matter a lot beyond BCAAs too, because you need things like tryptophan, tyrosine, glycine, glutamine, glutamate, etc to make neurotransmitters and hormones and such, and iirc some regulate heart rhythm and maintain circulation and clotting etc. Some of them, like taurine, are necessary to even break down fat because bile doesn’t work without them. Amino acids are an area where I think it’s okay to see what happens on lower amounts but you really don’t want to eliminate most even for a relatively short experiment.
fwiw, ime the idea of “essential” and “nonessential” amino acids is dumb because there are so many reasons (genetics, other micronutrients in the diet) a person may not be able to *keep pace* with synthesizing *enough* of a “nonessential” amino acid to do various things in the body, even if they can make some. Outright fasting is different because your body switches tons of levers to survive by unblocking access to scavenge your cells/tissues for resources, but when you’re digesting food you’re signalling your body to prioritize doing stuff with the food coming in, so it keeps other resources locked away. You can run out of stuff to potentially dangerous effect if the ratios of what’s coming in really imbalance anything you might be low in; even if it’s in the short term, if it’s something critical to say heart rhythm or clotting, it may not matter if *hours later* your cellular signaling finally unblocks access to things your body needs, because you had a heart attack or stroke before it settled. So just be careful to research any amino acids you may be lacking when you start doing protein experiments!
Agreed on "essential" things (not just AAs). I mean it's a bar, but a very low one. Probably not useful except in starvation situations.
Thanks for the gelatin tip; I wasn't going to reduce my regular protein intake, only add gelatin (or collagen?) to it. So I should be getting at least the same amounts of everything, unless the ratios matter a lot here.
The mTOR thing is interesting, yea. It's so complicated and influences pretty much anything.
I actually did bulletproof coffee for years before just switching to cream, as cream is easier, cheaper, no need for a blender, and tastes better :) Plus exact same effect, unless you're out for the extra ketones from MCT oil. (Which isn't a problem I have, since I'm doing a ketogenic diet anyway, unlike Asprey.)