I'm feeling inspired by your experiments so I'm planning to start my own Ex150 variation! Somewhat laxer, but still a high saturated fat low PUFA diet. Currently I'm gradually introducing more pats of butter and scaling back everything else.
I'm a woman with a BMI of 27, moderately active, gain both muscle and fat easily. I eat like a horse and have extremely strong cravings (honestly, much of the appeal is to just spend less time thinking about food), but it seems like I also burn a lot more calories than calculators would predict, leaving me with a relatively normal build. I have never tried carnivore or keto. I have a *lot* of the symptoms from the thyroid list posted elsewhere on this blog, but I also have other chronic conditions that could cause them. It'll be interesting to see what improves and what does not.
Variations and potential issues:
- I'd like to vary my meals a bit, but within the same ballpark as the Ex150 classic: small portion of protein (beef or wild salmon) + non-starchy fruits and veggies.
- I'm mildly casein intolerant (and lactose intolerant just from lack of practice digesting dairy.) There are a number of high fat dairy products I tolerate well--butter as my staple, A2 and/or raw cream, regular heavy cream+lactaid, and occasional full fat ricotta. (Despite having more protein, ricotta gives me the same kind of intense satiety as cream.)
- I've had intermittent acid reflux and fat digestion issues since a bout of covid a few years ago. Honestly, this is the part I'm most worried about. FWIW, unsaturated fats and coconut oil are worse triggers for me than dairy fats, so it's also possible I will feel better. I will have to be pretty sparing with tomato sauce and other acidic foods, but it doesn't seem like tomato is an important part of the diet anyway.
- I have a couple social events coming up this month I'd like to eat at (most, I feel like I'll be fine just bringing a cream latte.) For cheat meals, I will try to pick less PUFA-y options.
Will report back. I'm not great at tracking things, but I can at least give my weight loss stats and some qualitative info for other people with dairy/gut issues. Onward and upward :)
Sounds like an interesting trial! Please let us know how it goes :) here are some thoughts:
- Your variations sound totally fine
- Sounds like you have a good grasp of what diary fats you tolerate, so just stick to those
- Yep, the tomato sauce is 100% optional - I just think it tastes great :) You could in principle use any sauce that's mostly water or fat. Or go without the sauce if you don't care for it.
- For me personally, dairy fat digests much better than any other kind. Maybe because it's already emulsified in cream?
Weight + qualitative info is great! If it noticeable changes e.g. digestion or subjective well being, that's huge.
1. Stabilize: the thing is if I "exploit" until I stabilize, I kind of lost the opportunity to try what else would've caused weight loss vs. not :D But yea I have thought about that a lot.
2. It's pasta sauce, not pasta. But yea it might be the salt. I don't use salt in my cooking, so that's the only source besides what comes with meat. I have suspected it's the salt that I'm craving. I'll try just eating a pinch of salt next time, thanks for the idea!
3. In farms, they seem to feed them corn meal and stuff like that to fatten them up. The salmon I'll eat is Alaska wild caught, which is allegedly as good as it gets.
4. No loose skin (didn't have last time when I lost over 100lbs). I have plenty of stretch marks from the weight gaining part still :) What do you mean by "stretch marks but in reverse?"
5. Agreed, if you lose weight "correctly" then your body should "eat" the excess loose skin. I think that's happened for me, possibly because I don't starve myself and I eat low protein, so my body is incentivized to metabolize excess skin.
1. Yeah i understand that. I have ideas but i need a list for that. And time xD
2. Yes, thats what i meant. I think that is cheese for me. Same thing i just need to eat that feta. But after that i blow up for a week or two.
4/5. I think i saw some thin and translucent lines. Similair to strech marks but they appeared when i lost weight. So they are "stretch marks" but the other way around. Maybe it was just normal stretch marks that changed for some reason. But it was different/weird enough to remember.
Mar 18·edited Mar 18Liked by Experimental Fat Loss
one question, just to understand the order of the different experiments:
you say here "I had planned on running 7 days of chocolate ganache fat fast after the 14 day fat fast, and had bought the required amount of 85% chocolate. After only 1 day, I realized I can no longer stomach chocolate ganache. I just HATE the taste now."
But I thought the chocolate ganache *was* the original fat fast. Didn't you abandon it and then do "savory fat fast?" Were you going to try it again after the last "savory fat fast"?
Yea, I was going to try it again. The first time I did any fat fast was with ganache, and I saw insane weight loss. In retrospect, I think it was just accelerated water loss after bloating myself up. The next fat fast didn't do much at all. Then this one ("savory") didn't, either.
In fact it was so bad I wanted to try a week of ganache fat fast again right after, just to verify that the ganache wasn't somehow superior (maybe due to the stearic acid in chocolate?). But I just can't eat chocolate any more.
In fact, as part of my 2 day refeed, I got these 90% chocolate, coffee flavored things from Whole Foods, and I can barely stomach them. I used to be able to eat a whole bar of 85%-95% chocolate a day with ease, but now it just makes my stomach turn. So weird.
ok, revisited the last post and see that you were trying 7 days of ganache after 14 days of savory fat fast. I think i was just getting confused with what "fat fast" meant in that particular sentence.
100% continue experimenting,. The primary reason for me is that there's no guarantee ex150 will continue work or work at the same rate as you've seen. As you've said yourself this isn't just about losing weight its about gamifying it too and the experiments are fun. Your bodyfat % is still very high IMO but good that visceral is reducing. I'd do some cardio if I were you even if you hate it. Get outside and walk for 30 minutes every day to give you a bit more of an exercise balance.
Sounds like a good experiment -- ratio of ω6 to ω3 could in theory be as good as 1:12. An interesting difference between sardines and salmon is in the specific MUFAs. Salmon (iirc) contains twice as much oleic acid. While obviously none of your readers doubt the importance of the ω6:ω3 balance, fans of oleic acid might suggest that any special successes you achieve are due to eating more of it than you have in ages. An interesting A:B test would be subsequently ex150EVOO, where you're blending Kirkland-brand olive oil into drinks for your fat calories every day. Perhaps you would lose even more weight than usual on EVOO.
I'm glad you're carrying on with the experiments as I find them fascinating and at some point may try some of them.
A small reduction in metabolic rate might be expected, as you now have less body to support.
I'm feeling inspired by your experiments so I'm planning to start my own Ex150 variation! Somewhat laxer, but still a high saturated fat low PUFA diet. Currently I'm gradually introducing more pats of butter and scaling back everything else.
I'm a woman with a BMI of 27, moderately active, gain both muscle and fat easily. I eat like a horse and have extremely strong cravings (honestly, much of the appeal is to just spend less time thinking about food), but it seems like I also burn a lot more calories than calculators would predict, leaving me with a relatively normal build. I have never tried carnivore or keto. I have a *lot* of the symptoms from the thyroid list posted elsewhere on this blog, but I also have other chronic conditions that could cause them. It'll be interesting to see what improves and what does not.
Variations and potential issues:
- I'd like to vary my meals a bit, but within the same ballpark as the Ex150 classic: small portion of protein (beef or wild salmon) + non-starchy fruits and veggies.
- I'm mildly casein intolerant (and lactose intolerant just from lack of practice digesting dairy.) There are a number of high fat dairy products I tolerate well--butter as my staple, A2 and/or raw cream, regular heavy cream+lactaid, and occasional full fat ricotta. (Despite having more protein, ricotta gives me the same kind of intense satiety as cream.)
- I've had intermittent acid reflux and fat digestion issues since a bout of covid a few years ago. Honestly, this is the part I'm most worried about. FWIW, unsaturated fats and coconut oil are worse triggers for me than dairy fats, so it's also possible I will feel better. I will have to be pretty sparing with tomato sauce and other acidic foods, but it doesn't seem like tomato is an important part of the diet anyway.
- I have a couple social events coming up this month I'd like to eat at (most, I feel like I'll be fine just bringing a cream latte.) For cheat meals, I will try to pick less PUFA-y options.
Will report back. I'm not great at tracking things, but I can at least give my weight loss stats and some qualitative info for other people with dairy/gut issues. Onward and upward :)
Hi!
Sounds like an interesting trial! Please let us know how it goes :) here are some thoughts:
- Your variations sound totally fine
- Sounds like you have a good grasp of what diary fats you tolerate, so just stick to those
- Yep, the tomato sauce is 100% optional - I just think it tastes great :) You could in principle use any sauce that's mostly water or fat. Or go without the sauce if you don't care for it.
- For me personally, dairy fat digests much better than any other kind. Maybe because it's already emulsified in cream?
Weight + qualitative info is great! If it noticeable changes e.g. digestion or subjective well being, that's huge.
Exploiting is a form of exploring... Namely, ABA testing, to be sure that B, or something else during B, didn't make A stop working.
See also: SMTM's recent blog post
It can be, I suppose :D
I made a list for the "try-something-new-out-feeling".
So you can scratch the itch of trying. Stick to the plan. Anticipate. Don’t improvise. If it was just so easy.
If i was in your shoes i would look and see at what point my weight stabilizes and start from there.
Unless you are fine with potentially gaining some kilos back.
You could try eat a bit of salt when you crave the pasta. Just a thought nothing else. Maybe something happens.
What do they feed salmon in farms ? Or those "raised in farms and then released into the wild salmons and than sold as wild salmon" salmons ? ;D
Do you have loose skin? Or Stretch marks but in reverse ?
I know how it sounds but loose skin has to go somewhere and it is made out of protein.
Maybe you have/had some new "stretch marks" that are just stripes of skin that gets reabsorbed.
1. Stabilize: the thing is if I "exploit" until I stabilize, I kind of lost the opportunity to try what else would've caused weight loss vs. not :D But yea I have thought about that a lot.
2. It's pasta sauce, not pasta. But yea it might be the salt. I don't use salt in my cooking, so that's the only source besides what comes with meat. I have suspected it's the salt that I'm craving. I'll try just eating a pinch of salt next time, thanks for the idea!
3. In farms, they seem to feed them corn meal and stuff like that to fatten them up. The salmon I'll eat is Alaska wild caught, which is allegedly as good as it gets.
4. No loose skin (didn't have last time when I lost over 100lbs). I have plenty of stretch marks from the weight gaining part still :) What do you mean by "stretch marks but in reverse?"
5. Agreed, if you lose weight "correctly" then your body should "eat" the excess loose skin. I think that's happened for me, possibly because I don't starve myself and I eat low protein, so my body is incentivized to metabolize excess skin.
To me the far more interesting question is what diet will keep the weight off. Rather than what diet helps you lose weight.
Partially because I myself am relatively skinny and want to know how to stay that way. Partially because I want to know if that’s an easier task :)
Well, to "keep it off" I have to first arrive ;)
1. Yeah i understand that. I have ideas but i need a list for that. And time xD
2. Yes, thats what i meant. I think that is cheese for me. Same thing i just need to eat that feta. But after that i blow up for a week or two.
4/5. I think i saw some thin and translucent lines. Similair to strech marks but they appeared when i lost weight. So they are "stretch marks" but the other way around. Maybe it was just normal stretch marks that changed for some reason. But it was different/weird enough to remember.
one question, just to understand the order of the different experiments:
you say here "I had planned on running 7 days of chocolate ganache fat fast after the 14 day fat fast, and had bought the required amount of 85% chocolate. After only 1 day, I realized I can no longer stomach chocolate ganache. I just HATE the taste now."
But I thought the chocolate ganache *was* the original fat fast. Didn't you abandon it and then do "savory fat fast?" Were you going to try it again after the last "savory fat fast"?
Yea, I was going to try it again. The first time I did any fat fast was with ganache, and I saw insane weight loss. In retrospect, I think it was just accelerated water loss after bloating myself up. The next fat fast didn't do much at all. Then this one ("savory") didn't, either.
In fact it was so bad I wanted to try a week of ganache fat fast again right after, just to verify that the ganache wasn't somehow superior (maybe due to the stearic acid in chocolate?). But I just can't eat chocolate any more.
In fact, as part of my 2 day refeed, I got these 90% chocolate, coffee flavored things from Whole Foods, and I can barely stomach them. I used to be able to eat a whole bar of 85%-95% chocolate a day with ease, but now it just makes my stomach turn. So weird.
ok, revisited the last post and see that you were trying 7 days of ganache after 14 days of savory fat fast. I think i was just getting confused with what "fat fast" meant in that particular sentence.
For the math on optimal exploration vs exploitation, look up "multi-armed bandits".
100% continue experimenting,. The primary reason for me is that there's no guarantee ex150 will continue work or work at the same rate as you've seen. As you've said yourself this isn't just about losing weight its about gamifying it too and the experiments are fun. Your bodyfat % is still very high IMO but good that visceral is reducing. I'd do some cardio if I were you even if you hate it. Get outside and walk for 30 minutes every day to give you a bit more of an exercise balance.
Sounds like a good experiment -- ratio of ω6 to ω3 could in theory be as good as 1:12. An interesting difference between sardines and salmon is in the specific MUFAs. Salmon (iirc) contains twice as much oleic acid. While obviously none of your readers doubt the importance of the ω6:ω3 balance, fans of oleic acid might suggest that any special successes you achieve are due to eating more of it than you have in ages. An interesting A:B test would be subsequently ex150EVOO, where you're blending Kirkland-brand olive oil into drinks for your fat calories every day. Perhaps you would lose even more weight than usual on EVOO.
>While obviously none of your readers doubt the importance of the ω6:ω3 balance
Oh I wouldn't be so sure...
I just threw that in as an nb4.