For me, the most fascinating question about all of this is yet to be answered, which is what happens to them afterwards? To a certain extent, it's almost like some kind of low pain version of an extended fat fast. I wonder if it has autophagy benefits. For sure, I would be happy to do it one or two months out of the year if it really were different from every other diet I've ever had which left me with the propensity to gain back more than I had lost as soon as I went off of it.
I want to second this. What happened to them once they stopped doing it is *the* important question. There are lots of diets that cause people to lose weight while they're still doing them.
I have just gone down the rabbit hole of ex150. So fascinating. Question: were any of your participants without a gallbladder? I parted ways with mine many moons ago and I've noticed that cream can be somewhat challenging digestively, although of course that's usually with a dessert that contains copious carbs and fat (and many times after a rousing holiday meal). Just wondering if ex150 is doable for the gallbladderless.
I lost my gallbladder about two years ago. I seem to be able to tolerate any amount of fat, provided:
- I have the same amount of fat each day, preferably spread out over each meal
- I eat at approximately the same time each day
- I eat lots of fibre at every meal
The rationale for the first two is that the body has no gall storage any more, so it needs to predict in advance how much gall will be needed. And the fibre slows down digestion a bit to compensate for any disparity, to help soak up any excess gall or fat.
I recently participated in SMTM's potato riffs, and afterwards decided to alternate between a potato variant and an ex150 variant, switching every two weeks. I'm nearing the end of my first shot at the ex150 variant and I've found it fine after the first few days of my body's recallibration.
The gall bladder variation I've been using is approximately "eat some sort of low carb fruit or veg with the cream".
(I've actually been slightly cheating in other ways too, due to cooking for a family, so my typical day looks like: cream or sr cream with veggies for breakfast/lunch, small amount of meat with veggies for dinner, whipped cream and berries for snacks.)
That's very interesting to know! Sounds like even without a gall bladder, you can easily eat fat if you just plan ahead a bit. I was under the impression it wasn't going to be possible at all.
IIRC (it's been a while since I did the research), when there is undigested fat in the gut the body upregulates bile production, and when there is too much bile it downregulates. But this is a very slow process, and most of the time, for most people, the bile is stored in the gallbladder and released as needed. Also, it seems there is some evidence that bile production shuts down overnight.
I think in the past doctors often recommended a low fat diet. And that would work, because if you stop eating fat you stop needing bile, but you also stop producing bile so it all works out.
My surgeon recommended that I just eat as normal, and deal with some digestive upset for the first few weeks. I disagree with him, but that's because I prefer to understand what's optimal; he's probably approximately correct most of the time.
My regular diet before all of this was on this high side of normal fat, and approximately one or two meals a day. Like I said, I seem to tolerate any amount of fat, provided it's consistent, but before the last couple of weeks I hadn't gone very far outside the average. And for about a year after I lost my gallbladder I was too scared to skip breakfast, but after speaking to someone else in the same position I tried it and I was fine after about a week. I suspect even one meal a day might be doable if I could eat it at exactly the same time each day, but I don't have that level of consistency.
I said that I was trying to alternate between potatoes riff and ex150 riff every two weeks. I now think that two weeks is too short, and ideally it should be at least four weeks, since ex150 is such high fat that it probably takes closer to a week to adjust. But I initially chose 2 weeks because I have previously done keto/not keto in a similar pattern and it worked well. And I'd previously chosen that because there is some evidence that women need more carbs in the ovulation-to-period part of their cycle.
I should also note that different kinds of fat are affected differently by bile. I read a scientific article about coconut oil and bile, but I don't remember the conclusion as I rarely eat coconut oil. I've also heard anecdotes that olive oil is fine but fish and chips (most likely vegetable oil?) are not. I personally haven't noticed a difference; I get most of my fat from dairy, egg, animal fat, and olive oil.
I suspect high fat could be tricky for you. My understanding (very little) of gallbladder removal is that you can't digest big amounts of fat any more?
Do you eat cream or other high fat foods from time to time right now, and how do you do on them? If you generally seem to be doing ok, you could still try it, maybe just spread the cream out more to give your digestion more time.
Also to mention: appetite been gradually dropping every day but big appetite drop today - about a week into it. Very noticeable less need to snack. 🙌
Nicely done! As you're aware, my very relaxed version of ex150 seems to work very well, and I'm pretty sure that the weight doesn't come back on immediately, in fact for me the weight loss seems to carry on for a while afterwards.
For me, the most fascinating question about all of this is yet to be answered, which is what happens to them afterwards? To a certain extent, it's almost like some kind of low pain version of an extended fat fast. I wonder if it has autophagy benefits. For sure, I would be happy to do it one or two months out of the year if it really were different from every other diet I've ever had which left me with the propensity to gain back more than I had lost as soon as I went off of it.
I want to second this. What happened to them once they stopped doing it is *the* important question. There are lots of diets that cause people to lose weight while they're still doing them.
I'll do a 6 month follow up. Or maybe 3? Or 3 and 6?
The more the better! If you're still in touch, (and it sounds like you all became friends!) then get all the data you can.
Maybe the real magic weight-loss technique was the friends we made along the way.
I have just gone down the rabbit hole of ex150. So fascinating. Question: were any of your participants without a gallbladder? I parted ways with mine many moons ago and I've noticed that cream can be somewhat challenging digestively, although of course that's usually with a dessert that contains copious carbs and fat (and many times after a rousing holiday meal). Just wondering if ex150 is doable for the gallbladderless.
I lost my gallbladder about two years ago. I seem to be able to tolerate any amount of fat, provided:
- I have the same amount of fat each day, preferably spread out over each meal
- I eat at approximately the same time each day
- I eat lots of fibre at every meal
The rationale for the first two is that the body has no gall storage any more, so it needs to predict in advance how much gall will be needed. And the fibre slows down digestion a bit to compensate for any disparity, to help soak up any excess gall or fat.
I recently participated in SMTM's potato riffs, and afterwards decided to alternate between a potato variant and an ex150 variant, switching every two weeks. I'm nearing the end of my first shot at the ex150 variant and I've found it fine after the first few days of my body's recallibration.
The gall bladder variation I've been using is approximately "eat some sort of low carb fruit or veg with the cream".
(I've actually been slightly cheating in other ways too, due to cooking for a family, so my typical day looks like: cream or sr cream with veggies for breakfast/lunch, small amount of meat with veggies for dinner, whipped cream and berries for snacks.)
That's very interesting to know! Sounds like even without a gall bladder, you can easily eat fat if you just plan ahead a bit. I was under the impression it wasn't going to be possible at all.
IIRC (it's been a while since I did the research), when there is undigested fat in the gut the body upregulates bile production, and when there is too much bile it downregulates. But this is a very slow process, and most of the time, for most people, the bile is stored in the gallbladder and released as needed. Also, it seems there is some evidence that bile production shuts down overnight.
I think in the past doctors often recommended a low fat diet. And that would work, because if you stop eating fat you stop needing bile, but you also stop producing bile so it all works out.
My surgeon recommended that I just eat as normal, and deal with some digestive upset for the first few weeks. I disagree with him, but that's because I prefer to understand what's optimal; he's probably approximately correct most of the time.
My regular diet before all of this was on this high side of normal fat, and approximately one or two meals a day. Like I said, I seem to tolerate any amount of fat, provided it's consistent, but before the last couple of weeks I hadn't gone very far outside the average. And for about a year after I lost my gallbladder I was too scared to skip breakfast, but after speaking to someone else in the same position I tried it and I was fine after about a week. I suspect even one meal a day might be doable if I could eat it at exactly the same time each day, but I don't have that level of consistency.
I said that I was trying to alternate between potatoes riff and ex150 riff every two weeks. I now think that two weeks is too short, and ideally it should be at least four weeks, since ex150 is such high fat that it probably takes closer to a week to adjust. But I initially chose 2 weeks because I have previously done keto/not keto in a similar pattern and it worked well. And I'd previously chosen that because there is some evidence that women need more carbs in the ovulation-to-period part of their cycle.
I should also note that different kinds of fat are affected differently by bile. I read a scientific article about coconut oil and bile, but I don't remember the conclusion as I rarely eat coconut oil. I've also heard anecdotes that olive oil is fine but fish and chips (most likely vegetable oil?) are not. I personally haven't noticed a difference; I get most of my fat from dairy, egg, animal fat, and olive oil.
Good luck :) Yea hard to say with the gall adjustment, only one way to find out: try it.
No, nobody mentioned gallbladder issues.
I suspect high fat could be tricky for you. My understanding (very little) of gallbladder removal is that you can't digest big amounts of fat any more?
Do you eat cream or other high fat foods from time to time right now, and how do you do on them? If you generally seem to be doing ok, you could still try it, maybe just spread the cream out more to give your digestion more time.
If you absolutely can't do high fat, you could look into Brad Marshall's Emergence Diet with is low-fat, low-protein, and high-starch: https://fireinabottle.net/scale-receipts-28-days-on-the-emergence-diet/
Aren't regular DEXA scans a lot of extra X-ray dose?
They're pretty low in radiation.
DEXA—Whole body 0.003 mSv according to this https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q13693.html
"The average annual natural background radiation level in the United States is approximately 3 mSv"
So I can do 1,000 DEXAs per year before I reach background radiation :)
Very good answer providing comparable context, thank you!
Also to mention: appetite been gradually dropping every day but big appetite drop today - about a week into it. Very noticeable less need to snack. 🙌
Very cool. This innate sense of "aggressive disinterest in food" is my favorite part of the diet.
Me too!
Nicely done! As you're aware, my very relaxed version of ex150 seems to work very well, and I'm pretty sure that the weight doesn't come back on immediately, in fact for me the weight loss seems to carry on for a while afterwards.
Just curious: does you or any of them track over night HRV values? Like for example with Oura Ring or any other tracker?
Not that I'm aware of.