I was a member of two Carnivore "eat fatty meat to satiety" groups for a total of 9 months and had a problem with (TMI!) shooting water diarrhea, the entire time. The main advice I regularly received was to watch my fat-especially rendered fat, take ox bile (made it worse) take enzymes (did nothing). When I switched to high fat low protein the diarrhea instantly stopped. I came to call it protein toxicity. I can drink rendered fat now, no problem. And during the high protein experiment my blood glucose was never under 100 mg/dl. The fat trimmings I buy at the supermarket are $2.00/lb. That sure beats the $17.00/lb the ribeyes are going for and my glucose this morning was 82 mg/dl. Woo-Hoo!
Interesting. I would also get, ahem, TMI symptoms on "just ribeyes" and I took the "too much rendered fat" people by their word - but maybe it was protein toxicity? Could explain the headaches, too. I hadn't even connected this haha.
Fat trimmings are basically free yea, because nobody buys them the butchers just throw them out if you don't buy them.
Amazing. The diarrhea thing when going carnivore seems really common (happened to me when I tried it) and I've always seen it explained as a response to the fat to which the body will adjust. What do your HF/LP meals that include trimmings look like?
I use ~100g of 80/20 ground beef made into a patty and ~ 80g of fried ribeye steak fat trimmings. That's if I am doing 3 meals/day. I break it down more for more meals. If you just ask for fat trimmings you get a really mixed bag- some of it not so great, too gristly. So you've got to ask for the ribeye/ribsteak trimmings. That's the good stuff.
May 27, 2023·edited May 27, 2023Liked by Experimental Fat Loss
'I was a member of two Carnivore "eat fatty meat to satiety" groups for a total of 9 months and had a problem with (TMI!) shooting water diarrhea, the entire time.'
I stopped keto a few years back after losing some weight for that exact reason. I was told eat more fatty meat, but it became unbearable. I have eaten a lot of fat in the form of butter and cheese (blue cheese mainly as it has no carbs, but some Brie and Camembert) and that has not happened this time. Early days though.
Very entertaining and informative post. I commented before that I think reducing protein has been a big part of my success with your recommendations. I had always been working with the "active people need loads of protein" paradigm. And Protein Power was one of the first well researched and structured low-carb eating plans. Of course, Protein Power didn't really call for excessive amounts of Protein. As a 6', 200 lb male, it recommends around 120 grams per day. Not that extreme there, but still double what I have been aiming for lately.
Yea funny how even Protein Power actually recommends moderate protein ;) 120g protein is 480kcal or about 13-14% of the 3,500kcal that a 6ft male would probably burn per day. So about 1/3 of what "eat ribeyes to satiety" would give you.
I'd love to see a variation where you do a sauce that is not tomato sauce. As you know SMTM's potato diet found a hint that tomato undermines weight loss. Would be a variation you could test rigorously without too much effort!
I actually alternate daily between tomato and alfredo sauce. I really wonder what that tomato association was. Could be tomato itself.
Nightshade -> inflammation?
Or could be that "tomato products" == "ketchup" which is 30% sugar by weight. Or that tomato products are consumed in the form of ketchup on top of fries, which come fried in seed oils.
I suppose so :) I will say I find tomato sauce extremely addictive.
It's more that I have like 40 other experiments I'd love to run, and "tomato" is pretty low on my list of hypotheses, given how I lost over 50lbs very rapidly eating it every other day.
This has always been my dilemma with carnivore/keto. How the hell do I get so much of my daily intake as fat? You say you are using heavy cream, how much are you taking in on a given day and how? I don't drink coffee so that's a no go. I'm interested in the pudding, maybe using dark chocolate cocoa powder? Are you also fasting? I tend to only want to eat once a day most days.
I also don't drink coffee, but have been following his basic outline for about a month using unsweetened cocoa powder instead. I use it both to make a warm drink and to flavor the whipped cream. I feel great when I can stick to it. The only hard part is the social situations. I am trying to find some option that isn't either fast until I get home or bring tupperware to every family, school or church event.
He eats 200ml of cream in the evening as a whipped cream dessert, and drinks whipped cream ad libitum throughout the day in coffee. The "fasting component" is OMAD intermittent fasting (apart from the cream in coffee). There are earlier posts that talk about this if you want more details.
This. Even with cream it's hard to masquerade the fat, haha. I mean I drink A LOT of coffee and I put A LOT of cream in, and I still need to eat a dedicated cream meal in the evenings :)
I don't consciously fast, but I eat 1 solid meal per day, 1 whipped cream meal, and then cream in coffee. So the only non-fat food I take in is OMAD, and in terms of insulin, that could make a difference.
Excellent read. I have been following Dr Robert Kiltz this week and he seems to be advocating high fat carnivore, and seemingly low protein. Or at least lower than your average carnivore, but I think you take it to a new level and seem to be having great success with it. I have started back on carnivore this week and making it all about the fat. I could do with a good 50lb loss as well, but I am 64 years old and female. It can be hard just to get the weight loss started. Having said that, I have lost about 3kg eating lots of cheese, bacon and eggs cooked in butter. My appetite went way down too. That never happens with carbs for me.
I joined dr Kiltz a couple of times on his Mighty Tribes live cast that he does at 5 am (USA). He is in Syracuse, and this works well for me at 10am in Scotland. He is an interesting guy. The first morning I joined, I said I had just had a big plate of bacon and eggs cooked in butter. He said 'Gotta get that fat in!
I enjoy your blogs! Giving me new food for thought!
Very interesting! Yea, for some people like us, very high fat seems to be where it's at. Wish you all the best with your weight loss and keep us updated please :) "Appetite went way down" sounds like a great start, that's how all my weight loss has happened, too. Some people seem to be able to white-knuckle their way to lean levels with Willpower (tm), but I've never been able to.
I was a member of two Carnivore "eat fatty meat to satiety" groups for a total of 9 months and had a problem with (TMI!) shooting water diarrhea, the entire time. The main advice I regularly received was to watch my fat-especially rendered fat, take ox bile (made it worse) take enzymes (did nothing). When I switched to high fat low protein the diarrhea instantly stopped. I came to call it protein toxicity. I can drink rendered fat now, no problem. And during the high protein experiment my blood glucose was never under 100 mg/dl. The fat trimmings I buy at the supermarket are $2.00/lb. That sure beats the $17.00/lb the ribeyes are going for and my glucose this morning was 82 mg/dl. Woo-Hoo!
Interesting. I would also get, ahem, TMI symptoms on "just ribeyes" and I took the "too much rendered fat" people by their word - but maybe it was protein toxicity? Could explain the headaches, too. I hadn't even connected this haha.
Fat trimmings are basically free yea, because nobody buys them the butchers just throw them out if you don't buy them.
Amazing. The diarrhea thing when going carnivore seems really common (happened to me when I tried it) and I've always seen it explained as a response to the fat to which the body will adjust. What do your HF/LP meals that include trimmings look like?
I use ~100g of 80/20 ground beef made into a patty and ~ 80g of fried ribeye steak fat trimmings. That's if I am doing 3 meals/day. I break it down more for more meals. If you just ask for fat trimmings you get a really mixed bag- some of it not so great, too gristly. So you've got to ask for the ribeye/ribsteak trimmings. That's the good stuff.
I'm interested in that too, I wonder if I could just do fried trimmings instead of heavy cream?
It'd definitely save money....just went to buy some HWC and it was $7 for a quart...didn't that used to be $3-$4???
Yea it tends to vary between stores. I've seen $5-7. But $7 is still super cheap compared to just about any other food source.
'I was a member of two Carnivore "eat fatty meat to satiety" groups for a total of 9 months and had a problem with (TMI!) shooting water diarrhea, the entire time.'
I stopped keto a few years back after losing some weight for that exact reason. I was told eat more fatty meat, but it became unbearable. I have eaten a lot of fat in the form of butter and cheese (blue cheese mainly as it has no carbs, but some Brie and Camembert) and that has not happened this time. Early days though.
Mmmm blue cheese.
Very entertaining and informative post. I commented before that I think reducing protein has been a big part of my success with your recommendations. I had always been working with the "active people need loads of protein" paradigm. And Protein Power was one of the first well researched and structured low-carb eating plans. Of course, Protein Power didn't really call for excessive amounts of Protein. As a 6', 200 lb male, it recommends around 120 grams per day. Not that extreme there, but still double what I have been aiming for lately.
Yea funny how even Protein Power actually recommends moderate protein ;) 120g protein is 480kcal or about 13-14% of the 3,500kcal that a 6ft male would probably burn per day. So about 1/3 of what "eat ribeyes to satiety" would give you.
Question: doesn't heavy cream have a bit of carbs in it? How much carb do you get from cream each day?
Yea, a tiny bit. I get about 25g of carbs per day, half of that from cream. Rest from tomato sauce. Under 4% of total energy intake.
I'd love to see a variation where you do a sauce that is not tomato sauce. As you know SMTM's potato diet found a hint that tomato undermines weight loss. Would be a variation you could test rigorously without too much effort!
I actually alternate daily between tomato and alfredo sauce. I really wonder what that tomato association was. Could be tomato itself.
Nightshade -> inflammation?
Or could be that "tomato products" == "ketchup" which is 30% sugar by weight. Or that tomato products are consumed in the form of ketchup on top of fries, which come fried in seed oils.
Who knows.
Could you stand a month where you don't alternate? ex150alfredo
I suppose so :) I will say I find tomato sauce extremely addictive.
It's more that I have like 40 other experiments I'd love to run, and "tomato" is pretty low on my list of hypotheses, given how I lost over 50lbs very rapidly eating it every other day.
This has always been my dilemma with carnivore/keto. How the hell do I get so much of my daily intake as fat? You say you are using heavy cream, how much are you taking in on a given day and how? I don't drink coffee so that's a no go. I'm interested in the pudding, maybe using dark chocolate cocoa powder? Are you also fasting? I tend to only want to eat once a day most days.
I also don't drink coffee, but have been following his basic outline for about a month using unsweetened cocoa powder instead. I use it both to make a warm drink and to flavor the whipped cream. I feel great when I can stick to it. The only hard part is the social situations. I am trying to find some option that isn't either fast until I get home or bring tupperware to every family, school or church event.
He eats 200ml of cream in the evening as a whipped cream dessert, and drinks whipped cream ad libitum throughout the day in coffee. The "fasting component" is OMAD intermittent fasting (apart from the cream in coffee). There are earlier posts that talk about this if you want more details.
This. Even with cream it's hard to masquerade the fat, haha. I mean I drink A LOT of coffee and I put A LOT of cream in, and I still need to eat a dedicated cream meal in the evenings :)
I don't consciously fast, but I eat 1 solid meal per day, 1 whipped cream meal, and then cream in coffee. So the only non-fat food I take in is OMAD, and in terms of insulin, that could make a difference.
Excellent read. I have been following Dr Robert Kiltz this week and he seems to be advocating high fat carnivore, and seemingly low protein. Or at least lower than your average carnivore, but I think you take it to a new level and seem to be having great success with it. I have started back on carnivore this week and making it all about the fat. I could do with a good 50lb loss as well, but I am 64 years old and female. It can be hard just to get the weight loss started. Having said that, I have lost about 3kg eating lots of cheese, bacon and eggs cooked in butter. My appetite went way down too. That never happens with carbs for me.
I joined dr Kiltz a couple of times on his Mighty Tribes live cast that he does at 5 am (USA). He is in Syracuse, and this works well for me at 10am in Scotland. He is an interesting guy. The first morning I joined, I said I had just had a big plate of bacon and eggs cooked in butter. He said 'Gotta get that fat in!
I enjoy your blogs! Giving me new food for thought!
Very interesting! Yea, for some people like us, very high fat seems to be where it's at. Wish you all the best with your weight loss and keep us updated please :) "Appetite went way down" sounds like a great start, that's how all my weight loss has happened, too. Some people seem to be able to white-knuckle their way to lean levels with Willpower (tm), but I've never been able to.