What i'm expecting to see in my lifetime is first a better explanation of why PUFAs are deleterious, and only later an explanation for why olive oil historically was fine despite being 3x higher PUFA than, say, butter.
Another interesting Mediterranean question is how ancient aristocrats got fat at all in the first place. John Chrysostom,…
What i'm expecting to see in my lifetime is first a better explanation of why PUFAs are deleterious, and only later an explanation for why olive oil historically was fine despite being 3x higher PUFA than, say, butter.
Another interesting Mediterranean question is how ancient aristocrats got fat at all in the first place. John Chrysostom, if I remember correctly, tried to explain this with the idea that the adipose tissue of fattened animals was indigestible, and therefore collected in the bodies of those who ate them. It's possible that eating fattened animals (especially pigs) only accidentally correlates with human obesity -- the Greeks highly prized walnuts, which are high in PUFAs. However, the standard fattening feed for pigs at the time was acorns, which are moderately high in PUFAs, and a 2021 study from Poland praises feeding acorns to pigs as a way of making them fatter, especially increasing MUFA and PUFA concentrations in their body fat. Walnuts and acorn-lard together might have been the culprit.
I hadn't heard of the greek/nuts theory, thanks for mentioning! Some nuts are indeed so full of PUFAs that Brad's "winter is coming" hypothesis is making more and more sense. That's probably why they're so "delicious" too, they induce hyperphagia :)
Edit: I hadn't listened to Brad and Paul on olive oil (podcast published two weeks ago) yet. My suspicion now, after the comment about how extra virgin olive oil has the 'cure' to the M/PUFA it also contains is that historical cultivars hadn't yet been successfully turned into such high oil producers, and had a different ratio.
What benefit would it have to know why some ancient aristocrats may have been fat? There just isn't enough data and the food environment was entirely different.
If PUFAs were uniquely the culprit and also were something created in a lab in 1950, there would be no history of obesity.prior to that. Knowing that our ancestors may have a history with them sheds light on our relationship with them now.
I think there probably isn't a lot of population level data on anything the further back you go. I think the only thing you can really look at is if there is an unusual number of young men unsuitable for conscription into military service due to obesity or other diseases. In fairly modern times those records are probably the only situation where data like height and body weight was even recorded at least once in a male persons adult life. Most of our ancestors are long forgotten.
Edit: Linoleic Acid was first discovered in 1844. PUFA have of course always existed. I think populations that historically consumed a lot of PUFA usually consumed more Omega-3 from marine sources, e.g. fish, seals, whales. Extraction of seed-oil using solvents was invented in the 1870s. I think the extraction of oil from seeds goes back a lot further but wasn't really feasible for large scale use (e.g. extract oil just to waste it on deep frying).
What i'm expecting to see in my lifetime is first a better explanation of why PUFAs are deleterious, and only later an explanation for why olive oil historically was fine despite being 3x higher PUFA than, say, butter.
Another interesting Mediterranean question is how ancient aristocrats got fat at all in the first place. John Chrysostom, if I remember correctly, tried to explain this with the idea that the adipose tissue of fattened animals was indigestible, and therefore collected in the bodies of those who ate them. It's possible that eating fattened animals (especially pigs) only accidentally correlates with human obesity -- the Greeks highly prized walnuts, which are high in PUFAs. However, the standard fattening feed for pigs at the time was acorns, which are moderately high in PUFAs, and a 2021 study from Poland praises feeding acorns to pigs as a way of making them fatter, especially increasing MUFA and PUFA concentrations in their body fat. Walnuts and acorn-lard together might have been the culprit.
Acorns might be less LA than other nuts, but still 20% of the fat and 10% of the carolies:
https://foods.exfatloss.com/food/170157
Of course walnuts are 60%/50%...
I hadn't heard of the greek/nuts theory, thanks for mentioning! Some nuts are indeed so full of PUFAs that Brad's "winter is coming" hypothesis is making more and more sense. That's probably why they're so "delicious" too, they induce hyperphagia :)
Edit: I hadn't listened to Brad and Paul on olive oil (podcast published two weeks ago) yet. My suspicion now, after the comment about how extra virgin olive oil has the 'cure' to the M/PUFA it also contains is that historical cultivars hadn't yet been successfully turned into such high oil producers, and had a different ratio.
What benefit would it have to know why some ancient aristocrats may have been fat? There just isn't enough data and the food environment was entirely different.
If PUFAs were uniquely the culprit and also were something created in a lab in 1950, there would be no history of obesity.prior to that. Knowing that our ancestors may have a history with them sheds light on our relationship with them now.
I think there probably isn't a lot of population level data on anything the further back you go. I think the only thing you can really look at is if there is an unusual number of young men unsuitable for conscription into military service due to obesity or other diseases. In fairly modern times those records are probably the only situation where data like height and body weight was even recorded at least once in a male persons adult life. Most of our ancestors are long forgotten.
Edit: Linoleic Acid was first discovered in 1844. PUFA have of course always existed. I think populations that historically consumed a lot of PUFA usually consumed more Omega-3 from marine sources, e.g. fish, seals, whales. Extraction of seed-oil using solvents was invented in the 1870s. I think the extraction of oil from seeds goes back a lot further but wasn't really feasible for large scale use (e.g. extract oil just to waste it on deep frying).
I think you're failing to understand what I find interesting about this.
Maybe - my problem really isn't with your interest, rather with the possibility to find out anything with any level of confidence.
😘
It's an interesting anecdote. Just like "Huh, cream diet works for this one guy" isn't proof of much, but it's a thread to pull on.