I agree that it'd be cool to find the actual mechanisms, but I think experimentation is a better way of finding them than anything else. If you lost 100lbs doing X, that's a really good hint and you can look for mechanisms there. If it stops working, you can say "Ok, my assumptions of why X worked were wrong, was there overlap, maybe wit…
I agree that it'd be cool to find the actual mechanisms, but I think experimentation is a better way of finding them than anything else. If you lost 100lbs doing X, that's a really good hint and you can look for mechanisms there. If it stops working, you can say "Ok, my assumptions of why X worked were wrong, was there overlap, maybe with Y?"
But if we wait until Science (tm) has figured this all out, we'll probably wait another 100 years or more.
But that's the thing, X might have worked fine and your assumptions might have been correct all along. It's just that you can't expect X to work in all cases and contexts, and the fact that you've changed, thanks to X working, changed your case and context from then on out. That's why in medicine a treatment is generally considered a temporary measure to alleviate a specific condition. Not a lifestyle change to permanently adhere to. So say you're overweight, you go on some diet, you lose a lot of weight, you then might have to prepare to change to a different or at least tweaked diet to manage the different circumstances. Now people tend to stay in the same regimen regardless of their change (or worse, exactly because they changed) and then find out it doesn't keep working, then they rebound or get into other issues. Basically it's not anticipatory and it isn't handled as an interventional measure. Thus you get stories like 'I tried keto/carnivore/IF and lost a looot of weight but then it stopped working', no it didn't stop working you continued using something after it has done its job. Wearing a cast longer than it takes to heal your broken arm won't help you make it stronger.
So I'm not saying we should first find the actual mechanisms, what I'm saying is that there should be a feedback loop that alters the approach, preferably with more than just simple factors like continuous weight loss. As you want to have a clear view on how the system is functioning (reading diagnostic data from the car engine) rather than simply observing if it hasn't stopped working yet (the car broke down). That's long before science has figured it all out, we might as well find better indicators that help us tweak the system before knowing the exact workings. Top of my mind I would at least consider using full blood lipid panel, glucose tolerance test, fasting glucose + insulin and dexa scan. I would see it as much more tailored and productive than just trying to eat just potatoes or ex150 or carnivore and see what it brings. Emphasis on 'just', as my point is not that either of those wouldn't work fine as a treatment, but that it should be coordinated from the feedback review loop.
Oh, yea, I basically agree. And I am using full blood panel + glucose (wearing a CGM right now) + dexa scans. I tried doing a glucose tolerance test but they wouldn't let me take it without an Rx haha and now with the CGM the point is kind of moot..
I think it depends a lot on the mechanism. E.g. if you break your leg, they put you on a cast and crutches, but after it's all healed up, those stop being useful and become detrimental.
But there are conditions (as opposed to, say, "diseases" or "accidents?" not sure what the medical terminology is exactly) that are permanent.
E.g. if you have celiac, you'll probably have to make a permanent "lifestyle change."
If you have type 1 diabetes, you'll probably have to inject insulin for the rest of your life.
If you have type 2 diabetes and you push it so far that your pancreas gives up, you have pushed yourself into that same boat.
So it would depend on the root cause of an individual's obesity. E.g. I'm very open to the idea that I will get to a healthy weight I'm happy with, and then I can eat whatever and don't have to do any keto or anything any more.
But I'm not holding my breath.
My Non24 specifically is almost certainly a permanent condition, and so, unless I find that keto is just a corollary, I'll probably largely keep doing keto for the rest of my life.
Ex150 specifically is designed as an intervention diet. I don't intend to keep eating like this for the rest of my life, although, honestly, it's not that bad. I'd probably try to find a balance of eating more protein and adding more variety. If I can do that without gaining the weight back, perfect.
Overall I agree with your point that there should be a feedback loop, and maybe even an anticipatory component.
I agree that it'd be cool to find the actual mechanisms, but I think experimentation is a better way of finding them than anything else. If you lost 100lbs doing X, that's a really good hint and you can look for mechanisms there. If it stops working, you can say "Ok, my assumptions of why X worked were wrong, was there overlap, maybe with Y?"
But if we wait until Science (tm) has figured this all out, we'll probably wait another 100 years or more.
But that's the thing, X might have worked fine and your assumptions might have been correct all along. It's just that you can't expect X to work in all cases and contexts, and the fact that you've changed, thanks to X working, changed your case and context from then on out. That's why in medicine a treatment is generally considered a temporary measure to alleviate a specific condition. Not a lifestyle change to permanently adhere to. So say you're overweight, you go on some diet, you lose a lot of weight, you then might have to prepare to change to a different or at least tweaked diet to manage the different circumstances. Now people tend to stay in the same regimen regardless of their change (or worse, exactly because they changed) and then find out it doesn't keep working, then they rebound or get into other issues. Basically it's not anticipatory and it isn't handled as an interventional measure. Thus you get stories like 'I tried keto/carnivore/IF and lost a looot of weight but then it stopped working', no it didn't stop working you continued using something after it has done its job. Wearing a cast longer than it takes to heal your broken arm won't help you make it stronger.
So I'm not saying we should first find the actual mechanisms, what I'm saying is that there should be a feedback loop that alters the approach, preferably with more than just simple factors like continuous weight loss. As you want to have a clear view on how the system is functioning (reading diagnostic data from the car engine) rather than simply observing if it hasn't stopped working yet (the car broke down). That's long before science has figured it all out, we might as well find better indicators that help us tweak the system before knowing the exact workings. Top of my mind I would at least consider using full blood lipid panel, glucose tolerance test, fasting glucose + insulin and dexa scan. I would see it as much more tailored and productive than just trying to eat just potatoes or ex150 or carnivore and see what it brings. Emphasis on 'just', as my point is not that either of those wouldn't work fine as a treatment, but that it should be coordinated from the feedback review loop.
Oh, yea, I basically agree. And I am using full blood panel + glucose (wearing a CGM right now) + dexa scans. I tried doing a glucose tolerance test but they wouldn't let me take it without an Rx haha and now with the CGM the point is kind of moot..
I think it depends a lot on the mechanism. E.g. if you break your leg, they put you on a cast and crutches, but after it's all healed up, those stop being useful and become detrimental.
But there are conditions (as opposed to, say, "diseases" or "accidents?" not sure what the medical terminology is exactly) that are permanent.
E.g. if you have celiac, you'll probably have to make a permanent "lifestyle change."
If you have type 1 diabetes, you'll probably have to inject insulin for the rest of your life.
If you have type 2 diabetes and you push it so far that your pancreas gives up, you have pushed yourself into that same boat.
So it would depend on the root cause of an individual's obesity. E.g. I'm very open to the idea that I will get to a healthy weight I'm happy with, and then I can eat whatever and don't have to do any keto or anything any more.
But I'm not holding my breath.
My Non24 specifically is almost certainly a permanent condition, and so, unless I find that keto is just a corollary, I'll probably largely keep doing keto for the rest of my life.
Ex150 specifically is designed as an intervention diet. I don't intend to keep eating like this for the rest of my life, although, honestly, it's not that bad. I'd probably try to find a balance of eating more protein and adding more variety. If I can do that without gaining the weight back, perfect.
Overall I agree with your point that there should be a feedback loop, and maybe even an anticipatory component.