Could very well be that "regular ol' CICO" is a viable strategy for some. It does seem to be the only strategy for already-lean people who want to be bodybuilder thin.
Also seems like all your CICO successes have been high protein/low everything else? So maybe that's one lever for you? I probably have the opposite lever, but that's why it…
Could very well be that "regular ol' CICO" is a viable strategy for some. It does seem to be the only strategy for already-lean people who want to be bodybuilder thin.
Also seems like all your CICO successes have been high protein/low everything else? So maybe that's one lever for you? I probably have the opposite lever, but that's why it's slightly complicated.
Although from what it sounds like you didn't gain the weight back immediately, but stabilized. So that's good, but you seem to have suffered significant other effects from what sounds like colloquially a "ruined metabolism."
If I were you (unless you're now 100% happy with your diet/weight) I'd keep experimenting in a direction that seems to have worked partially (high protein, low rest), but try to find a combination that doesn't have the side effects.
> Could very well be that "regular ol' CICO" is a viable strategy for some. It does seem to be the only strategy for already-lean people who want to be bodybuilder thin.
Yep. In my case, the aim is to avoid being skinny fat.
> you seem to have suffered significant other effects from what sounds like colloquially a "ruined metabolism."
Spot on—felt and feels that way
> while you lost fat, it caused significant issues. This probably wouldn't quite fit into my definition of "diet success"
Agree strongly with your framing of "diet success". Well-written article!
> I'd keep experimenting in a direction that seems to have worked partially (high protein, low rest), but try to find a combination that doesn't have the side effects.
I would do that again, but since this latest fat loss, I've added tallow and fruit back, and I really don't want to give them back up—in fact I'd like to somehow get past my dairy intolerance and have raw milk/cream.
Given I agree with your concept of "diet success," protein-only doesn't feel like a sustainable diet long term even at above-TDEE levels. And/or whether it is in fact sustainable, I don't want it sustain it, because I feel more energy when eating fruits and fats. Restricting fats, carbs, and/or calories is a huge drag.
Interesting that you're so into tallow and fruit specifically :) Do you just cook the tallow, or how do you consume it? I am only able to use a tiny amount, basically to cook my meat in. Eating it on its own instantly gives me fat blergh feel after just one teaspoon, lol.
Occasionally cook with tallow if cooking chicken. Mainly eat raw beef though. So generally eat tallow with a spoon. if you have zero fat for a while it tastes like gold ;)
Could very well be that "regular ol' CICO" is a viable strategy for some. It does seem to be the only strategy for already-lean people who want to be bodybuilder thin.
Also seems like all your CICO successes have been high protein/low everything else? So maybe that's one lever for you? I probably have the opposite lever, but that's why it's slightly complicated.
It also sounds like in both cases, while you lost fat, it caused significant issues. This probably wouldn't quite fit into my definition of "diet success": https://exfatloss.substack.com/p/the-definition-of-diet-success
Although from what it sounds like you didn't gain the weight back immediately, but stabilized. So that's good, but you seem to have suffered significant other effects from what sounds like colloquially a "ruined metabolism."
If I were you (unless you're now 100% happy with your diet/weight) I'd keep experimenting in a direction that seems to have worked partially (high protein, low rest), but try to find a combination that doesn't have the side effects.
Thanks for the thorough response Ex
> Could very well be that "regular ol' CICO" is a viable strategy for some. It does seem to be the only strategy for already-lean people who want to be bodybuilder thin.
Yep. In my case, the aim is to avoid being skinny fat.
> you seem to have suffered significant other effects from what sounds like colloquially a "ruined metabolism."
Spot on—felt and feels that way
> while you lost fat, it caused significant issues. This probably wouldn't quite fit into my definition of "diet success"
Agree strongly with your framing of "diet success". Well-written article!
> I'd keep experimenting in a direction that seems to have worked partially (high protein, low rest), but try to find a combination that doesn't have the side effects.
I would do that again, but since this latest fat loss, I've added tallow and fruit back, and I really don't want to give them back up—in fact I'd like to somehow get past my dairy intolerance and have raw milk/cream.
Given I agree with your concept of "diet success," protein-only doesn't feel like a sustainable diet long term even at above-TDEE levels. And/or whether it is in fact sustainable, I don't want it sustain it, because I feel more energy when eating fruits and fats. Restricting fats, carbs, and/or calories is a huge drag.
Interesting that you're so into tallow and fruit specifically :) Do you just cook the tallow, or how do you consume it? I am only able to use a tiny amount, basically to cook my meat in. Eating it on its own instantly gives me fat blergh feel after just one teaspoon, lol.
Occasionally cook with tallow if cooking chicken. Mainly eat raw beef though. So generally eat tallow with a spoon. if you have zero fat for a while it tastes like gold ;)
Ha, wow. You're a greater man than I ;)
To that I say keep up the good work! I await drinking cream