*they intuitively preferred a sub-variant that, while not specified by the diet, happened to solve their problems*
I think people need to try out everything until they find their problem.
It looks that for people who do not have success with one way or suddenly gain weight back etc. That they might have a another problem that was not adressed yet. Or that noticed they can't process "xyz" properly.
Sure people can loose weight now knowing what to avoid. They may get healthier, hopefully. But unless they fix the issue which isn't always possible by not eating something in my opinion. They might be just as broken afterwards. But now they are at least thin, right?
So the spiral begins again or they follow the diet until it does not work anymore. And than get fat again.
So adding another step of fixing your body might be more important than choosing diet alone.
Maybe telling people how not to get sick is better? (i know its that easy ;P)
2.
*as much as necessary, as little as possible* (hope it translates well)
The best explanation is the one you can easily teach children (elemantary school age).
I think most adults who are 'broken' for a long time will never recover from it. They will always somehow need to control food/diet etc. At worst they will teach their kids all the wrong things. So if you are able to teach children what to look out for or even avoid things than you are on the winning team.
Otherwise most people who are "healthy" or not acutally sick/fat just won't care. I feel explaining things more detailed should be left for those interested in it. For the majority of people a small, easy to understand flyer that can be read within less than 5 minutes is all i can see to be honest. The rest is just noise.
3.
I want to expand this part but i don't have time now.
I know this post was about diets. But anyway i think it does fit.
What i miss here is behavior and the pychosogical side of things. Which is in my opinion almost as important or even more important than diet alone.
Without fixing your relationship with 'food/yourself/others/anything really' it almost does not matter what you eat (i.e. emotion/stress/eating patterns/timing etc.).
I especially want to include those "branches/groups" within any diet that will recreate a SAD-diet but with low/high-carb/fat stuff.
They recreate the same shit that made them fat. But now it is xyz-free. So its good now (taps forehead). They still shove 15 xyz-free muffin(insert anything here) into their mouth every day.
They have not changed at all. How do they expect change when they do the same thing.
Maybe this explains my view a bit better. They never moved on, they only look in a different direction.
Yes, it does not affect everyone.
---
I might have lost track while writing this. Multiples times sry
You forgot the Energetic/Mitochondria/Ray Peat diet that is having its day: Orange juice, fruit, well cooked potatoes, rice, ruminant meats. Honey, chocolate, carrot salad and ice cream. No PUFA's. I have been able to adjust my calories up to 2400 (a bit more than double) without gaining weight. But is my metabolism healing? Hard to say. The frustration is real.
I chuckled at "binge on nuts all day". I am confident that I could gain a ton of weight on WFPB. I think i've eaten an entire square costco tub of raw cashews in a single day.
Maybe we can do better on terminology, though. The diet you'll be eating when you're done losing weight can almost be described by a single word: 'yamnaya'. Low-protein keto yamnaya (LPKY) is what you're doing right now.
"Severely limit at least 1, but likely 2 of {protein,carbs,fat}. You probably want to pick 1 of the energy macros (carbs/fat). You’ll likely also need to restrict protein to a certain degree. In short, don’t swamp your macros."
Can you explain the reasoning behind this a bit more? Is this only relevant for people who are overweight? Or is it potentially also important for people trying to reduce inflammation?
Being blunt, volumetric dieting helped me drop 20kg. Who needs self control when you can just Eat More Salad? It ended up being vegetarian light in the end, and I found most my “cravings” disappear as it forced me to learn the difference between full vs satiated.
My mantra is avoid NOTHING. Eat what you want, when you want - IN MODERATION. Stay away from sugar and fast food for the most part, but other than that, eat less than you burn. Simple.
Apr 16·edited Apr 17Liked by Experimental Fat Loss
It also occurs to me that like "Standard American Keto" we're starting to get to the "Standard American Carnivore". While the early ZIOH crew said to "eat whatever meat you enjoy and can afford" ... they also repeatedly said that you should view bacon and eggs as a condiment.
In four years of trolling carnivore groups, very few people eat significant amounts of chicken (or fish) because you just can't enough fat. Which really just leaves pork as the problem ...
I know you didn't cover weight yo-yoing in your post, but the following excerpt from *Omega Balance* was excellent in this regard:
"It is [the] constancy of fat cell number that is probably the reason why the common response following major weight loss is a slow return to original body weight. Dieting can shrink fat cells but not eliminate them."
> you probably need to understand why swamping is a problem, which involves the TCA/Krebs cycle and distinguishing individual amino acids
Can you elaborate on this or point me to a source that discusses these issues? I thought I had everything figured out after reading Omega Balance (i.e. that metabolism depends on cell membrane function, and too much arachidonic acid in the cell membranes leads to problems). Where does BCAA fit in with all of this?
1.
*they intuitively preferred a sub-variant that, while not specified by the diet, happened to solve their problems*
I think people need to try out everything until they find their problem.
It looks that for people who do not have success with one way or suddenly gain weight back etc. That they might have a another problem that was not adressed yet. Or that noticed they can't process "xyz" properly.
Sure people can loose weight now knowing what to avoid. They may get healthier, hopefully. But unless they fix the issue which isn't always possible by not eating something in my opinion. They might be just as broken afterwards. But now they are at least thin, right?
So the spiral begins again or they follow the diet until it does not work anymore. And than get fat again.
So adding another step of fixing your body might be more important than choosing diet alone.
Maybe telling people how not to get sick is better? (i know its that easy ;P)
2.
*as much as necessary, as little as possible* (hope it translates well)
The best explanation is the one you can easily teach children (elemantary school age).
I think most adults who are 'broken' for a long time will never recover from it. They will always somehow need to control food/diet etc. At worst they will teach their kids all the wrong things. So if you are able to teach children what to look out for or even avoid things than you are on the winning team.
Otherwise most people who are "healthy" or not acutally sick/fat just won't care. I feel explaining things more detailed should be left for those interested in it. For the majority of people a small, easy to understand flyer that can be read within less than 5 minutes is all i can see to be honest. The rest is just noise.
3.
I want to expand this part but i don't have time now.
I know this post was about diets. But anyway i think it does fit.
What i miss here is behavior and the pychosogical side of things. Which is in my opinion almost as important or even more important than diet alone.
Without fixing your relationship with 'food/yourself/others/anything really' it almost does not matter what you eat (i.e. emotion/stress/eating patterns/timing etc.).
I especially want to include those "branches/groups" within any diet that will recreate a SAD-diet but with low/high-carb/fat stuff.
They recreate the same shit that made them fat. But now it is xyz-free. So its good now (taps forehead). They still shove 15 xyz-free muffin(insert anything here) into their mouth every day.
They have not changed at all. How do they expect change when they do the same thing.
Maybe this explains my view a bit better. They never moved on, they only look in a different direction.
Yes, it does not affect everyone.
---
I might have lost track while writing this. Multiples times sry
You forgot the Energetic/Mitochondria/Ray Peat diet that is having its day: Orange juice, fruit, well cooked potatoes, rice, ruminant meats. Honey, chocolate, carrot salad and ice cream. No PUFA's. I have been able to adjust my calories up to 2400 (a bit more than double) without gaining weight. But is my metabolism healing? Hard to say. The frustration is real.
I chuckled at "binge on nuts all day". I am confident that I could gain a ton of weight on WFPB. I think i've eaten an entire square costco tub of raw cashews in a single day.
Maybe we can do better on terminology, though. The diet you'll be eating when you're done losing weight can almost be described by a single word: 'yamnaya'. Low-protein keto yamnaya (LPKY) is what you're doing right now.
"Severely limit at least 1, but likely 2 of {protein,carbs,fat}. You probably want to pick 1 of the energy macros (carbs/fat). You’ll likely also need to restrict protein to a certain degree. In short, don’t swamp your macros."
Can you explain the reasoning behind this a bit more? Is this only relevant for people who are overweight? Or is it potentially also important for people trying to reduce inflammation?
I just wanna eat cheese and drink cream…..
Tremendous work!
Being blunt, volumetric dieting helped me drop 20kg. Who needs self control when you can just Eat More Salad? It ended up being vegetarian light in the end, and I found most my “cravings” disappear as it forced me to learn the difference between full vs satiated.
My mantra is avoid NOTHING. Eat what you want, when you want - IN MODERATION. Stay away from sugar and fast food for the most part, but other than that, eat less than you burn. Simple.
It also occurs to me that like "Standard American Keto" we're starting to get to the "Standard American Carnivore". While the early ZIOH crew said to "eat whatever meat you enjoy and can afford" ... they also repeatedly said that you should view bacon and eggs as a condiment.
In four years of trolling carnivore groups, very few people eat significant amounts of chicken (or fish) because you just can't enough fat. Which really just leaves pork as the problem ...
Thanks for these great posts. I gave you a shout-out here (when I say iconoclastic weirdo, I mean it in a good way): https://braff.co/advice/f/ai-and-seed-oil-disrespect
I know you didn't cover weight yo-yoing in your post, but the following excerpt from *Omega Balance* was excellent in this regard:
"It is [the] constancy of fat cell number that is probably the reason why the common response following major weight loss is a slow return to original body weight. Dieting can shrink fat cells but not eliminate them."
Side-question : how worried are you of vitamin A chronic toxicity hypothesis on your heavy cream diet ?
> you probably need to understand why swamping is a problem, which involves the TCA/Krebs cycle and distinguishing individual amino acids
Can you elaborate on this or point me to a source that discusses these issues? I thought I had everything figured out after reading Omega Balance (i.e. that metabolism depends on cell membrane function, and too much arachidonic acid in the cell membranes leads to problems). Where does BCAA fit in with all of this?
Excellent writing.
What is the problem with cheese? He said, through the years.