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Thaddeus Hughes's avatar

I dig this a lot. I like the idea of having an 'approach' moreso than a 'prescription'.

Really loving your work. Love that you're willing to entertain the whole spectrum. It's so necessary to regaining this 'approach'.

I myself am underweight. I'm about 5'11. Through my late teens/early 20s I weighed 125. I've been able to get up to 140 by going much more keto (it's not about 'weight loss'; it's about 'homeostasis'!). I'm nowhere near as thorough as you but I've just been slowly modifying my diet; noticing "how do I feel" on different things. I am finding that adding in a few carbs (no more than 20% of calories; into the swamp is horrible) gets me way more "regular" in terms of gut feeling and energy level. In the winter I do a lot of standing outside in the cold (farm life) and this has been my best winter yet - I am starting to finally have the circulation and body fat required to endure it.

hwold's avatar

A bit late to the party, but I think I have my own N=1 observations to contribute.

You see satiety as the signal to track. It absolutely doesn’t work for me.

I have never, in my life, felt satiety. Okay, I’m lying. I have, once time, a few months a go, for the first time, and never again. I was sick with COVID, 2 days stuck in bed. When I got better, I prepared a meal, and halfway through it, I had that weird, previously-unknown to me feeling of "I’ve eating enough even if I’m not full ; I could force myself to eat more I guess, but I really don’t want to".

It was awesome. I want to feel that again. It’s just I just don’t normally work that way : I can eat as much as I want until physical fullness, without feeling any point of "it’s enough" along the way. It has always been that way for as long as I can remember ; I don’t think it’s a "seed oiled" thing.

Instead, my food intake is (poorly) "regulated" that way : I have two "eat" impetus :

* Habits becoming physiological expectations in terms of timing and quantity. If I eat 4 slices of bread in the morning for two weeks, then if one day I skip it, I will not necessary get _hungry_, but I will quickly have a "craving for slices of bread" : mouth salivating, taste buds expecting/wanting slices of bread, wanting to chew and swallow something having the same mouth-feeling as bread. It is a pretty strong thing. And going to 3 slices of bread trigger it at a lower intensity. Fighting it requires a quite large quantity of willpower.

* Usual hunger, if my intake from my habits is clearly metabolically insufficient. "Stomach growling". I think everyone knows this.

The first is a ratchet (because I can add I much as I want to my habits and there’s absolutely no signal that says "nope, too much", outside of fullness that takes a lot, but subtracting to my habits require a lot of willpower). The second cranks it (it’s getting colder => I’m getting constantly more hungry => I’m adding a bit of chocolate at breakfast => it’s now locked in as an expectation by my food reward circuitry). The outcome is obvious.

In short : your idea of "just find what you can eat to satiety, don’t rely on willpower" is probably not as the "obvious/universal starting point" as you make it (exhibit two would be Yudkowsky — I know you know his case).

Also, in that light, "CICO" makes more sense ; if I can "lie" to my first system as to what constitute the "habitual meal" (ie : keeping quantities/timing/overall taste/consistency the same, substituting real food with "low caloric substitutes"), then that "kinda" "works"… (clearly not a silver bullet tho).

And I don’t think the "eat less, move more" idea is completely ridiculous non-sense. Sure, it doesn’t explain the bulk of the obesity epidemics by itself, and if you think It’s The Only Answer you’re going to solve the wrong problem using the wrong methods… But that idea that "you can eat too much, and if you do you get unhealthily fat" was an idea you can find in medical writings from _antiquity_. It cannot be just "heh, but that too much is just driven by seed oils right ?". There is probably something such as "overeating".

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